Digital B&W from colour originals

[MurrayMinchin]

Hi there,

What are you using to convert your colour digital originals to B&W? I've kept to Capture One, but am interested in what other people are using, and if they have any nuggets of wisdom or hard won experience to share. Samples encouraged!

Today I made a discovery (which is probably old news to everyone else) and the reason for this thread. What other slap-the-forehead things am I missing?

David Kachel wrote an article decades ago about the need to "always go too far" when working towards a fine print. His contention was that, like when manually focusing a lens where you have to go past perfect focus in both directions before you can be truly sure your chosen subject is sharp, the same is true when printing: you should go beyond what you think is perfect, just to be sure.

The 'Basic' colour sliders in Capture One's colour editor don't nearly go far enough when in B&W mode. Todays revelation is that you can go to the 'Advanced' colour editor and use the colour picker which gives more control. I'd prefer it to have even more effect and have written a request to Capture One to see if that could be included in a future update.

Here's the image where the discovery was made. In the first one, I didn't like the way the totem pole and Hemlock truck were so similar and was contemplating the use of a mask/layer to darken the tree trunk in a bit. The second one is after using the colour picker on the tree truck, then using the lightness slider to darken it.

The totem pole darkened a wee bit as well, but I already have a layer for the pole to increase contrast there, so can easily lighten it if need be.

What are you using? Tips?

 

[Robert Ley]

I am in the process of converting literally thousands of B&W and color negatives into color and B&W positive digital images. I am using a Lightroom classic plugin called Negative Lab Pro. I am photographing the negatives using my Nikon D600 and a 105mm macro lens, a copy stand and an led flat screen viewer (Kaiser Slimlite Plano).

I have 4x5, 6x7, 645 and 35mm. For 35mm I'm using a Bowens Illumitron and my Nikon D7100. You shoot the negatives in Raw and bring them into Lightroom and convert them with Negative Lab Pro. This NLP is absolutely magical in its use.

I used to print color in my darkroom and I only wish I could have gotten as good a print on the first try as NLP gives me with converting these negatives. NLP will work with color negatives as color and by using the B&W conversion it will convert a color negative to B&W. If you start with a B&W negative it will convert that as B&W. Once converted, NLP gives you a great deal of latitude for changing color and contrast with sliders much like Lightroom.

If you have Lightroom classic you can try Negative Lab Pro for 25 conversion before you have to pay. The cost is $99 for the plugin and it is the best money that I have spent for photo software.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...NLP will work with color negatives as color and by using the B&W conversion it will convert a color negative to B&W. If you start with a B&W negative it will convert that as B&W. Once converted, NLP gives you a great deal of latitude for changing color and contrast with sliders much like Lightroom...

Thanks.

I started in digital with Lightroom, but it had trouble understanding Fujifilm's X-Trans sensor. Fujifilm partnered up with Capture One, so I went with them...figured Fujifilm would be sharing some of their sensor secret sauce info with Capture One and the former Lightroom 'wormy' issue went away.

I have a couple plug-ins...maybe I should look around to see if there's a more powerful B&W conversion option out there.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I am in the process of converting literally thousands of B&W and color negatives into color and B&W positive digital images. I am using a Lightroom classic plugin called Negative Lab Pro. I am photographing the negatives using my Nikon D600 and a 105mm macro lens, a copy stand and an led flat screen viewer (Kaiser Slimlite Plano).

I have 4x5, 6x7, 645 and 35mm. For 35mm I'm using a Bowens Illumitron and my Nikon D7100. You shoot the negatives in Raw and bring them into Lightroom and convert them with Negative Lab Pro. This NLP is absolutely magical in its use.

I used to print color in my darkroom and I only wish I could have gotten as good a print on the first try as NLP gives me with converting these negatives. NLP will work with color negatives as color and by using the B&W conversion it will convert a color negative to B&W. If you start with a B&W negative it will convert that as B&W. Once converted, NLP gives you a great deal of latitude for changing color and contrast with sliders much like Lightroom.

If you have Lightroom classic you can try Negative Lab Pro for 25 conversion before you have to pay. The cost is $99 for the plugin and it is the best money that I have spent for photo software.

Is there a place where we can see your color conversions using NLP color to color?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Murray: I've used Lightroom Classic purchased as well as Silver Efex which is a plug in.

This is a 4x5 Ektachrome converted to BW with Lightroom. Sorry I don;t have the original handy in color.


Below is a medium format Velvia 50 converted I believe by LR.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Found a tutorial for Silver Efex as a plugin for Capture One.

Note: Be kind...it's a how-to on getting Silver Efex into Capture One, *not* how to use the plugin or how to make a lovely B&W!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

So far, after an exhaustive, intermittent, partial afternoon of research, it seems Silver Efex is about the same as Capture One in regards to how much effect colour sliders have (operating behind the scene using the original colour image) on B&W photos.

I don't need or want Silver Efex film grain simulations...coming from 4x5 film and having never made enlargements bigger than 11x14, grain was pretty much non existent, so is not something I'm looking for.

My goal initially was to make digitally enlarged negatives for hand coated salt prints, and/or Kallitype's on heavy weight old world fine art papers, so artificial grain would probably disappear into the paper fibres anyway.

Think the same would apply with direct to plate polymer photogravures, which is where I'm headed next.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Todays effort...Capture One, judicious use of colour sliders, typical dodge & burns for balance, subtracted a bit of clarity in an attempt at 'glow'

Speaking of 'glow' what, if anything, do you use to avoid crispy overly sharpened digitalness?

 

[grain elevator]

Speaking of 'glow' what, if anything, do you use to avoid crispy overly sharpened digitalness?

A light hand with sharpening.
Most software has a colour curves tool, that should do what you're looking for in a more flexible way than the tools with sliders.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

A light hand with sharpening.
Most software has a colour curves tool, that should do what you're looking for in a more flexible way than the tools with sliders.

Thanks...haven't played much with sharpening yet.

Will also check to see if there's a colour curves tool in Capture One.. Never thought of looking for it. I used the curves tool when creating a curve for enlarged negatives destined for salt prints, and it's flexible to the extreme.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Most software has a colour curves tool, that should do what you're looking for in a more flexible way than the tools with sliders.

Ahhh...in Levels, you can play with red, green, and blue to a most abusively disgusting degree. Not that you'd ever want to take it to the extremes, but there's far more power there than with sliders.

There may be even more precise colour control buried in there somewhere, but this is enough for now. Thanks a bunch!!!!

 

[SodaAnt]

What are you using to convert your colour digital originals to B&W?

I do it directly in Photoshop using a Black and White adjustment layer. I then manipulate the color sliders in the adjustment layer's property window until the image looks the way I want it to look.

 

[nmp]

I do it using Channel Mixer layer in PS CC- which mimics what we (I used to) do for b&W film, i.e. use various color filters to make something darker or lighter - yellow or red for dark sky, a green for light foliage etc. I cycle the B&W presets like IR, blue, gren etc. and see if the global adjustment does the job to my satisfaction. If not, I may make a custom mixer by combining R,G and B in different percentages (+ or -, for a total of 100.) If that does not quite work then I would resort to localized conversion by using a combination of 2 or more channel layers each with respective masks. I might even add a separate H&S layer with Saturation set to zero in there somewhere if necessary.

Noting fancy but I haven't had a need for using a dedicated app for it yet.

:Niranjan.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I do it using Channel Mixer layer in PS CC- which mimics what we (I used to) do for b&W film, i.e. use various color filters to make something darker or lighter - yellow or red for dark sky, a green for light foliage etc. I cycle the B&W presets like IR, blue, gren etc. and see if the global adjustment does the job to my satisfaction. If not, I may make a custom mixer by combining R,G and B in different percentages (+ or -, for a total of 100.) If that does not quite work then I would resort to localized conversion by using a combination of 2 or more channel layers each with respective masks. I might even add a separate H&S layer with Saturation set to zero in there somewhere if necessary.

Noting fancy but I haven't had a need for using a dedicated app for it yet.

:Niranjan.

I've only made one custom pre-set so far, which turns RAW images into something more palatable.

Will look into making more for the B&W realm, which might/should/hopefully remove some repetition in getting things started.

Thanks

 

[MurrayMinchin]

For those who don't know what colour controls can do to a B&W image from a colour original in the digital realm, here's a quick video that hints at the potential:

 

[toadhall]

So far, after an exhaustive, intermittent, partial afternoon of research, it seems Silver Efex is about the same as Capture One in regards to how much effect colour sliders have (operating behind the scene using the original colour image) on B&W photos.

I don't need or want Silver Efex film grain simulations...coming from 4x5 film and having never made enlargements bigger than 11x14, grain was pretty much non existent, so is not something I'm looking for.

My goal initially was to make digitally enlarged negatives for hand coated salt prints, and/or Kallitype's on heavy weight old world fine art papers, so artificial grain would probably disappear into the paper fibres anyway.

Think the same would apply with direct to plate polymer photogravures, which is where I'm headed next.

You don't have to use film grain simulations is Silver Efex, they're just an option. Personally, I like SFx and use it as my go to colour to B&W conversion tool.