Digitaal Negatives with Epson 3880?

RalphLambrecht · Oct 20, 2014

Has anybodu used this printr to make digital negativesfor contact printing?What materials(film and inks)have you used?Did you use PS to create the half-tone pattern or what else?Please elaborate

pschwart · Oct 20, 2014

This is another common topic and many use the Epson 38xx for digital negs. Do an advanced forum search.

Richard Boutwell · Oct 20, 2014

I suspect ralph is frantically doing research for his digital book...

RalphLambrecht · Oct 21, 2014

Richard Boutwell said:
I suspect ralph is frantically doing research for his digital book...

You suspect wrong.the book was done a month agobut,for someone claiming to be an expert in digital printing,you have little to offer

RalphLambrecht · Oct 21, 2014

pschwart said:
This is another common topic and many use the Epson 38xx for digital negs. Do an advanced forum search.

I always do that firstbut still ask if it turned out less than satisfactorybut the, Ialways answer if I can, even repetitive questions,becauseit doesn't take any longer than giving a lecture in forum usage

Richard Boutwell · Oct 21, 2014

ralphlambrecht said:
You suspect wrong.the book was done a month agobut,for someone claiming to be an expert in digital printing,you have little to offer

Can you remind us how long you have been making inkjet prints with that 3880 of yours?

I know you have had a little brain injury so I won't be too hard on you, but someone with less than a year of experience with a print making process is hardly in a position to criticize someone else's expertise in that same area.

What is it that they say? The putting is in the print? the proof is in the putting, oh, right the proof is in the print.

pschwart · Oct 21, 2014

Sorry if you didn't find that a helpful suggestion. I did a search for "Epson 3880" and got 8 pages of hits. I thought a lot of that info might be of interest to you.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 21, 2014

I saw it toobut,I was after more specifics and currently available materials,Still, thanks for your help.

pschwart · Oct 21, 2014

Ralph:

Would it be possible to post the table of contents for upcoming "Digital Monochrome" book? It would be helpful to know what will be covered ...

RalphLambrecht · Oct 21, 2014

pschwart said:
Ralph:

Would it be possible to post the table of contents for upcoming "Digital Monochrome" book? It would be helpful to know what will be covered ...

Yes, I can probably swing that;in short ,the book focuses on making exhibition-quality B&W images and explores what experiences from the wet darkroom can be applied for the dry work, because, I believe that analog experienced photographers have an advantage in learning digitalbecause, they already know most of the techniques to get a pleasing image.

pschwart · Oct 21, 2014

A TOC would be most helpful. Are you shooting film, making digital negatives, and making silver or alt process prints, or are you now advocating digital capture and digital printing? Knowing your workflow will provide useful context for online discussions.

Dave Swinnard · Oct 21, 2014

ralphlambrecht said:
Has anybodu used this printr to make digital negativesfor contact printing?What materials(film and inks)have you used?Did you use PS to create the half-tone pattern or what else?Please elaborate

Yes. I've made digital negatives with this printer using the Epson stock ink set. They negatives were made on Pictorico's OHP Transparency Film (MItsubishi Imaging (MPM), Inc. :: Graphic Arts — Digital Imaging — Pictorico — Transparent Film) and printed with a QTR curve calibrated for Carbon Transfer (not Silver Gelatin) printing. (the QTR curve courtesy of Sandy King at his Photo. Formulary workshop in August.)

For Silver Gelatin digi-negs, there is a document by Michael Rosenberg called "Digital Negatives For Silver Gelatin Darkroom Prints V15" available from his web site at: Digital Negatives. It covers QTR calibrations quite well.

The particular model of 3880 printer we used was one of the unfortunate ones to show "pizza wheel" marks on the transparency film (and subsequent prints!). It is my understanding that not all of them are prone to this - I don't, I've only used the one unit.

Photoshop work was just "make the image look good" then invert the tones to print negative. For Carbon Transfer, the image was not inverted (flopped) as it's a transfer process.

And that's about all I can tell you. I'm still working on the mysteries of QTR for my (old, old) printer.

(looking forward to your new book)

Dave

ZELER · Oct 22, 2014

hI

I use the R3880 with transparent COLOURBYTE. My method is that of Dan Burkholder with CS5. And I am very satisfied but I have not used other transparent so ...

Pierre

RalphLambrecht · Oct 22, 2014

Richard Boutwell said:
Can you remind us how long you have been making inkjet prints with that 3880 of yours?

I know you have had a little brain injury so I won't be too hard on you, but someone with less than a year of experience with a print making process is hardly in a position to criticize someone else's expertise in that same area.

What is it that they say? The putting is in the print? the proof is in the putting, oh, right the proof is in the print.

Dick,I had a strokeand fortunately with little effect on my executive brain functions.but, it left me paralized on the left side of my body.What does that have to do with my ability to print?Maybe, it's God's way to level the playing field a bit.and remember, I asked,I didn'y claim to know or to be society's gift to digital printing.But since you seem to think that time alone adds to experience,there is still hope for me and you.Well mostly you actuallybecause, I already have more than 50 years of photographic experience. My fear however is that it isn't just the time but what you do with it!dear Richard.

Richard Boutwell · Oct 22, 2014

ralphlambrecht said:
I already have more than 50 years of photographic experience. My fear however is that it isn't just the time but what you do with it!

My point exactly.

Also, there is no accounting for taste.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 22, 2014

Richard Boutwell said:
My point exactly.

Also, there is no accounting for taste.

taste is mostly ndividualbut heavily influenced by individual circumstancessuch as education,economical standing,friends,culture and others.Much like beauty,which is in the eyes of the beer holder,:munch:

RalphLambrecht · Oct 22, 2014

Dave thanks for the effort of writing this all down;I'm also interested to get away with the Epson standard inks.I have a friend who is a Conevictbut it seemslike a lot of hype to me.

L Gebhardt · Oct 22, 2014

I suspect the Cone inks are excellent, but I'm not willing to lock myself into one tone for the printer since I use it for making prints (including color). In theory they should allow much smoother tonality in the highlights. This probably isn't a factor for making negatives since you won't see it once printed (as it will be in the shadows). Besides I find the stock Epson inks don't have a big issue with the highlight tonality.

Richard Boutwell · Oct 22, 2014

L Gebhardt said:
I suspect the Cone inks are excellent, but I'm not willing to lock myself into one tone for the printer since I use it for making prints (including color). In theory they should allow much smoother tonality in the highlights. This probably isn't a factor for making negatives since you won't see it once printed (as it will be in the shadows). Besides I find the stock Epson inks don't have a big issue with the highlight tonality.

I'be been making platinum prints from negatives printed with epson inks for 7+ years and the cone inks for going on 3 years. The only reason I could see for making the switch to print with piezography digital negative inkset is to print on gelatin silver papers. With silver papers, the cone inkset seems to be sharper in the detailed areas of the print, and cleaner (as in less visible dots) in the smoother areas. It isn't perfect, but pretty good. I don't see much of a benefit over the epson inks with platinum prints or prints on matte/softer papers though.

The real question is whether or not you want to dedicate the printer to grey ink only, and most do not. I am able to have a 9900 for color (and larger B&W with QTR) and cone inks in a 3800 (for negatives and prints) and in an older 7600.

When making positive inkjet prints (on a very good paper) that are carefully blended with a very good k3 warm profile and one with color toning inks will be almost, but not quite, as good as a print with a dedicated k6/k7—there really does seem to be a jump in quality when getting above 3 or 4 grey inks. However, that is somewhat subjective, and very much dependent on the editing of the original file—garbage in, garbage out. The cone inks are excellent, and his supplied curves get people making prints out of the gate rather than messing around with the other 3rd party inksets and creating their own QTR curves. It gets decidedly harder the more grey inks you add to the mix.

pschwart · Oct 22, 2014

We could have a separate thread for Piezography vs native ink sets since this is a complicated issue. My short take: Piezography is excellent for paper prints -- you really can't beat a full monochrome ink set for prints on paper. [MIS inks make beautiful prints, too, and their ink is much less expensive.] When it comes to digital negatives, you can encounter some significant gottchas using Piezography. Carbon prints I make from Ultrachrome and Piezography negatives are indistinguishable -- equal in resolution, tonality, and smoothness. I use Piezography in an Epson 1400 because the native Claria doesn't provide sufficient UV blocking. It was a $179 refurb I bought to dedicate to monochrome, so a minimal investment. I use the native Ultrachrome in an R1800, and the negs are just as good. Both the 1400 and the R1800 make visibly better negatives than the 3800. I think this is because the smallest droplet is 1.5 picoliters vs 3.5 picoliter droplets with the 3800. Both of the 1400 and the R1800 are only 13" printers, which is one reason I make small prints. The 3800 does fine job making negatives for platinum, but carbon is a lot more demanding.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 14, 2015

pschwart said:
A TOC would be most helpful. Are you shooting film, making digital negatives, and making silver or alt process prints, or are you now advocating digital capture and digital printing? Knowing your workflow will provide useful context for online discussions.

My head went digital all the way butI'm afraid, my heart did not follow completly.Eventually,I'm aiming for digital capture and digital printing but,I like to wet print some images by contact printing digital negatives ala Dan Burkholder

jeffreyg · Jul 14, 2015

Ralph,
I left you a note on your other thread.

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