digibase c41 development problem

Hi all,

I experience some problems with my C41 developed films. I use the Rollei Digibase C41 kit. I bought the set in december 2016, mixed the chemicals and developed with success.
Last week, I made a new mix of new chemicals (developer, bleach, fixer and stab.) bcs the old ones were obviously expired.

I'm not happy at all with the results. Almost all the films I developed (around 15), have a magenta cast and are extremely grainy. I use the plastic agitator that comes with the paterson development tank. Perhaps I did it too aggresive. Is just flipping the tank once every 30secs sufficient?

My temerature was correct. I use a Fluke electronic device with a thermo sensor that has a deviation within 0.2 degree C. I kept the water tap running so all the chemicals had the correct temperature. I developed different kinds of film, like Portra 400, Kodak Gold 200, Superia 200, Ektar 100 and even Ektar 25 (which to my surprise came out best!). They were all way more grainy than the films I normally have developed at the drugstore.

I know my camera's lightmeter (Canon T-90) is good, beceause I also shot a roll of slide film which I had developed at the drugstore, they came back perfect.

But the most troubles I got were the colors! They look like some early color photos from around WWII. Or these colorized postcards. Really flat and muddy skies. Is this a developer problem? Is it an agitation problem? Underdeveloped, overdeveloped or are my concentrates exhausted or expired? Does anyone know the shelf life of the concentrates?

edit: added picure

Are these those kits that give a set of different temperature times ? I would stick with a 100F and 3.15min. As for your chemicals I always top up with marbles to make the bottle full when storing them, from my humble C41 experience it's usually temperature or chemical exhaustion that cause most problems and you used a Fluke meter.............
I was going to try a digibase kit but I have read negs as well as positives about them so I am still deciding ......

If it is any help, Harry, there is about a 28 page thread on the Digibase kits on APUG. You have to sift thorough the info but that's true of every forum's posts. Might be worth a look if you are not aware of it

pentaxuser

Kruiwagen, a lot might depend on whether you were able to keep the air out of the developer as the bottles were opened and if air has got in it's been 7 months since you used the developers. It might be worth buying just the developer as one of the benefits of the kit is that it is sold separately or at least it was last time I looked.

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

Kruiwagen, a lot might depend on whether you were able to keep the air out of the developer as the bottles were opened and if air has got in it's been 7 months since you used the developers. It might be worth buying just the developer as one of the benefits of the kit is that it is sold separately or at least it was last time I looked.

pentaxuser

Click to expand...

the mixed developer was fresh, but yes, it's 7 months since the concentrate is used. I thought these had a very long shelf time if they haven't been mixed yet.

I don't think its expired developer you see here. Old developer would give you underdeveloped negs, complete loss of shadow detail and very low contrast, and that's just not the case here in your sample pic.

Very flat colors and unusually high grain can come from incomplete bleaching. Either repeat the BLIX&wash cycle, or try a test in Farmer's reducer. You won't see incomplete bleaching in C-41, because silver builds up only in those regions which also have high dye density.

Rudeofus said:

I don't think its expired developer you see here. Old developer would give you underdeveloped negs, complete loss of shadow detail and very low contrast, and that's just not the case here in your sample pic.

Very flat colors and unusually high grain can come from incomplete bleaching. Either repeat the BLIX&wash cycle, or try a test in Farmer's reducer. You won't see incomplete bleaching in C-41, because silver builds up only in those regions which also have high dye density.

Click to expand...

I would guess it is expired too.
Just look at part "C" of the CD it is allways the first wich is overstored.
You may have a little luck to use your other concentrate just by changing part C
against a new one.
with regards

Only you know what the colours were like as you were there but a lot of railway wagons that I see have this faded weather-beaten look. If I'd seen this in the gallery I might have wondered about the sky colour but that apart I don't think I'd have commented on anything else

pentaxuser

The tones and de-saturation plus the comment about grain suggest to me that there was a degree of under development. Comment has been made about poor bleach fix as well, and all will contribute to the effect you have. I always use Digibase as a matter of course, because of the cost of other makes and I know how it works. Had any of the concentrates discoloured beyond a pale straw colour (especially the solution A)

I always mix a full kit at once as it is so very stable, so long as it is stored in glass bottles with screw tops. I have just finished my last kit (2.5L) and the bottle of working solution I used was mixed last March and this had hardly changed colour from when I first mixed it.

As a calculated guess, I would put it down to lack of agitation. I use a jobo CPE2 3.15 mins @ 38C and the agitation is constant. Even a deviation of .5 of a degree does not seem to make a great deal of difference.

pentaxuser said:

If it is any help, Harry, there is about a 28 page thread on the Digibase kits on APUG. You have to sift thorough the info but that's true of every forum's posts. Might be worth a look if you are not aware of it

pentaxuser

Click to expand...

Thanks Pete I have located it and going through it....Thanks.

kruiwagen said:

Hi all,

I experience some problems with my C41 developed films. I use the Rollei Digibase C41 kit. I bought the set in december 2016, mixed the chemicals and developed with success.
Last week, I made a new mix of new chemicals (developer, bleach, fixer and stab.) bcs the old ones were obviously expired.

I'm not happy at all with the results. Almost all the films I developed (around 15), have a magenta cast and are extremely grainy. I use the plastic agitator that comes with the paterson development tank. Perhaps I did it too aggresive. Is just flipping the tank once every 30secs sufficient?

My temerature was correct. I use a Fluke electronic device with a thermo sensor that has a deviation within 0.2 degree C. I kept the water tap running so all the chemicals had the correct temperature. I developed different kinds of film, like Portra 400, Kodak Gold 200, Superia 200, Ektar 100 and even Ektar 25 (which to my surprise came out best!). They were all way more grainy than the films I normally have developed at the drugstore.

I know my camera's lightmeter (Canon T-90) is good, beceause I also shot a roll of slide film which I had developed at the drugstore, they came back perfect.

But the most troubles I got were the colors! They look like some early color photos from around WWII. Or these colorized postcards. Really flat and muddy skies. Is this a developer problem? Is it an agitation problem? Underdeveloped, overdeveloped or are my concentrates exhausted or expired? Does anyone know the shelf life of the concentrates?

edit: added picure

Click to expand...

I've used Fluke meters with thermocouples at work, these can be tricky? I have had false readings when wires were loose. If you had partial bottles of concentrate this can really cause a problem. Mixed solutions stored in absolutely full bottles works for me. I use Kodak Flexicolor for C-41.

Nice photos, does remind me of old Anscochrome, nice soft colors. You might just have discovered a new process!

I would try new chemicals and check your meter against a "fever thermometer" 98.6 F (37C). When I used Paterson tanks for color in the past I never had a problem, I would agitate by inversion every 30 seconds or so.

Best Mike

You could and probably should use at least two thermometers for colour work .........Thats what I am telling myself.

Kruiwagen, you say that almost all the films developed have a magenta cast and are very granular.
Question: the negatives have a good density (have meat), the markings on the photocopied edges appear at a good density, the film fog seems fine?
Scanning a photogram along with the perforation would be more useful to me.
What I see severely in the image presented are the colored streaks in the sky.
In connection with granulation, if negatives are more transparent (from development or exposure), it is normal for the image to look more granular.

George

Hello kruiwagen

I've used the Rollei Digibase C41 kit in the past and obviously have some experience with it. In case you don't have them, the instructions can be found here. There's a troubleshooting section on page 2 and even lists a "magenta cast" case, where the cause is too warm developer, or too vigorous agitation. In other words, it's overdevelopment and longer than normal development time could also be the cause. I've had a case of overdevelopment with Ektar 100 and it certainly looked more magenta than normal. Another case with Portra 160 gave more brown negatives. At first I thought that insufficient bleaching - fixing was the cause, but repetition of the bleach - fix cycle with the leader of this particular film didn't change anything. For the record, I cut the leader in half and compared the before - after result, no change. You can obviously try another bleach - fix cycle with your film, it won't hurt and will show you if that's the cause. I too got weird results after scanning, worse than yours actually. Whatever scanner setting I used gave more or less ugly colours. I only got good results because I included some gray card shots at different exposure levels, so I could make my own curves for every channel, to correct colours. That of course couldn't reduce the unusually coarse grain... My overdevelopment cases were caused by extended development time, I'd now stick to 3:15.

If I were you I'd stick to the agitation recommendation in the instructions: Continuous for the first 15'' and then 1 tilt every 30''. If there is one very iffy recommendation in the instructions, then it's the very short bleaching time. It can be marginal, prolonged bleaching time doesn't hurt and I'd say don't bleach for less than 6:30 (at 38°C). BTW, the working solutions have very good keeping properties when stored in full bottles (bleach is more or less indestructible). Mine were stored in atrocious conditions (too high temperature) and even got reasonably good results after 8 months. Of course, I don't recommend doing so, but it's something to keep in mind.

I used a Digibase kit about 4 years ago and one of the problems they were having at the time was bad Developer Part C - if it was purple in color, it was oxidized and no good. Fortunately I saw this information before mixing the chemicals and Freestyle replaced my bad Part C and results were great. Maybe this was the problem - do you remember the color of your Developer Part C?

I've used the Unicolor powder kits since then and get great results; however I will try the Kodak Flexicolor chemicals next, featuring separate bleach and fix and liquid concentrates (which should allow me to develop a few rolls at a time), to see how they work.

mklw1954 said:

I used a Digibase kit about 4 years ago and one of the problems they were having at the time was bad Developer Part C - if it was purple in color, it was oxidized and no good. Fortunately I saw this information before mixing the chemicals and Freestyle replaced my bad Part C and results were great. Maybe this was the problem - do you remember the color of your Developer Part C?

I've used the Unicolor powder kits since then and get great results; however I will try the Kodak Flexicolor chemicals next, featuring separate bleach and fix and liquid concentrates (which should allow me to develop a few rolls at a time), to see how they work.

Click to expand...

I just checked the part C I still have left. It's not colored in any way.

kruiwagen said:

I just checked the part C I still have left. It's not colored in any way.

Click to expand...

It would look as if the dev concentrate is fine. That leaves Rudeofus' recommendations in #6. If, having tried them, they make no difference then I think that leaves 1. defective part C( does a defective part C produce faded colours?) 2. developing at lower than the recommended 3 mins 15 secs at 37.8C'.( this usually is blamed for colour crossover rather than a faded look and I can't see a colour crossover in the railway wagon shot) and anyway you may have developed at 37.8 C. I can't find what if anything you said about your temp.

Frankly I cannot see the problem graininess in the railway wagon shot nor a magenta cast either.

I had asked if the faded colours of the wagon were representative of the colours in reality but I didn't get an answer.

It might help if you were to show us other examples of unnaturally faded colours and magenta casts. The railway wagon for reasons I gave in #8 is perhaps not the best example to use.

pentaxuser