difficulty regulating water temperture for development. suggestions?

[Dikaiosune01]

What is the best way of regulating water temperture for photo development?
I don't have a darkroom. I have one of those steel tanks.

I'm not sure if the tap water is too hard to develop photos. (can I test this?)
next the temperture isn't the ideal 20 degrees celcius. Can I pop it in the freezer for a few minutes to drop the temperture? And then mix my chemicals? What is the best way to regulate temperture?

I'm getting foggy results on my film. I believe this is due to the unsteady temperture that I'm having trouble to keep consistent. Currently, I sit in my small 5 feet by 5 feet bathroom (including tub, toilet and sink); i would apprecaite suggestions that involve minimum space. If my bathroom had the space, I would do my own printing too. But until then I got to travel 2 hours to my nearest darkroom rental place.
Thanks

 

[mwdake]

If your developer temperature is a little above 20c just develop at whatever temperature it is and adjust the time. There is a temp/time chart on the Ilford website.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

I regularly develop at 23-24 c

 

[jmcd]

I use a big bucket as a water bath to hold my bottles of solution (developer, stop, fix) and get them to the right temperature. For rinsing and washing, I fill a big pitcher, adding hot and cold to get it to the right temperature. It is pretty easy to get the temperature close enough to where I want it.

I also have a temperature control valve, a glorified shower valve with a thermometer, but for processing a few rolls of film the bucket method saves water, as it can take awhile to get the water flowing from the regulated faucet to stabilize at the right temperature. And if someone runs hot water somewhere else in the house, the temperature falls and must once again flow to adjust.

So, the low tech approach works pretty well for me.

 

[2F/2F]

You can go hotter without a lot of trouble just by decreasing the developing time. If it gets too short, you can increase dilution of the stock.

Going too cold presents the risk of losing shadow detail, though there are developer formulas you can use to combat this.

What I would do would be to fill an 11x14 tray with water from the cold tap about an hour (or more) before you want to develop. Mix up all your chemicals at the same time, and put them in closed bottles. Then put the bottles in the tray and let the whole setup sit. This should make everything close enough to the same temperature, i.e. room temperature. The only tough part will be the wash water from the tap. If it is too hot, there is nothing you can do about it. But if it is too cold, you can hold a thermometer in a graduate that is being filled from the tap, and gradually introduce hot water until the wash water equals the temperature of your processing solutions.

Or you can use the Ilford wash method by using wash water from large tank that has equalized with room temperature. It should be about the same temp as your processing solutions if you follow the steps above involving the tray.

Foggy results sound like old film and/or bad fixing. You would probably notice high grain and possibly reticulation if temperature variation was creating problems.

 

[tkamiya]

I don't have that good of a control when it comes to temperature either but I never got "foggy results." If you are consistently getting this, you might want to look for other causes.

I am careful with developer temperature. I use water bath to stabilize it to about 20C. During 10 minutes or so development time, it might change about a degree or two. I've done it as high as 24 degrees or as low as 18 degrees but once the process starts, I keep it farely accurate.

I don't worry about rest of the process as long as it's not an extreme change. Rest of the liquid is usually at the room temperature. Wash is done at whatever the tap water may be at that time.

 

[Jon Shiu]

For cooling the developer, I freeze some water in a small plastic bottle and then just dunk this in the developer until 20 deg. C is reached. You could also just throw in a few small ice cubes and stir until desired temp.

With a little planning, you can set up in your bathroom darkroom: boards over the tub to hold trays, and a rolling cart to hold the enlarger. I have done in several different apartments.

Jon

 

[2F/2F]

For cooling the developer, I freeze some water in a small plastic bottle and then just dunk this in the developer until 20 deg. C is reached. You could also just throw in a few small ice cubes and stir until desired temp.

With a little planning, you can set up in your bathroom darkroom: boards over the tub to hold trays, and a rolling cart to hold the enlarger. I have done in several different apartments.

Jon

Plastic film canisters full of ice is another option.

 

[mopar_guy]

Even a little bit of light can fog the film when you are loading the reels. This step must be done in total darkness. Or the developing tank may be "leaking" light.

 

[Dikaiosune01]

Thank you for everyones answers. For tolerating my naivity and patience. I wish to now add to my originsl question.

Perhaps the fogging on my film is caused by light leaks in the container. If water can leak out so can light. Is this reasonable?

 

[Existing Light]

Plastic film canisters full of ice is another option.

Good to know someone else does this. I thought I might be the only one

Thank you for everyones answers. For tolerating my naivity and patience. I wish to now add to my originsl question.

Perhaps the fogging on my film is caused by light leaks in the container. If water can leak out so can light. Is this reasonable?

If you have one of those "daylight" tanks that let you pour liquid in and out of a hole in the top, those have a 'light trap' that lets in liquid but not light. Basically, light cant turn corners (unless there's a black hole in your developing tank ), so there's a lip under the spout that blocks the light but the liquid can flow over it. Assuming that isnt messed up somehow, you're probably not fogging your film while it's in the tank (assuming the "fogging" is caused by a light leak and not old film that's been kept poorly by you or the previous owner(s) ). Maybe someone else can explain the light trap better, or you can probably find a diagram on google if I've confused the piss outta you

When I first started out in photo class in college, our 'darkrooms' werent perfectly light tight. A small amount of light came in through the bottom of the doors. Getting some kind of seal for the bottoms of the doors would have been the right way to fix the problem, but on our school's fine art budget, all we could afford were black towels from Wal Mart . Being the dumb photo 1 students we were, many of us ignored the warning to cover the gap under the door with towels and ended up with fogged film for our first few rolls. Also, not knowing any better, we used 400 speed film because we were afraid of not having enough light, even in full daylight; that didnt help our light fogging problem. Neither did standing right next to the door. I told you that to tell you this: when loading your film, make sure it's completely dark. you might have to sit on your toilet and face the door for a minute or two for your eyes to adjust. when they adjust and you see light leaking in to your bathroom, it's not dark enough. I personally wait till night now to process film because my darkroom is an old, leaky shed and our house has lots of windows. With all the streetlights and cars driving by, I still have to have the window blinds shut and my bathroom door closed before it's dark enough.

Good luck with your next roll

 

[Mats_A]

..... I personally wait till night now to process film because my darkroom is an old, leaky shed and our house has lots of windows. With all the streetlights and cars driving by, I still have to have the window blinds shut and my bathroom door closed before it's dark enough.

Good luck trying that in Finland during the summer

To OP. If you have a plastic tank, make sure that you have the center column in place or the light will leak in. Don't ask me how I know this.

r

Mats

 

[Steve Smith]

I use the Roger Hicks method. Get the temperature right (or a couple of degrees higher) at the start then measure again near the end of the development time and make a compensation for the time based on the average temperature. A temperature measurement half way through the process would probably be accurate enough too.

Perhaps the fogging on my film is caused by light leaks in the container. If water can leak out so can light. Is this reasonable?

No. Water can go round corners, Light can't


Steve.

 

[Dikaiosune01]

Thank you for everyones responses. I especially how quickly you shot down my first theory for fogging. ill definitely be more careful when loading and unloading film now.

Theory number 2: i use a changing bag when developing film. during the film process, my apartment lights are on and im watching tv. Perhaps, some reflected light off the walls squirm their way into my changing bag while loading film.

Theory number 3. a sligt variation of theory 1. When i overload the film tank, water leaks out of the side, not the top. I suppose the lips on the side still constitute ligt tight seal though. Lets stick with theory 2 then.

Again, im much appreciate everyones contribution. Ive been shooting film for about 6 months. Im completely self taught through youtube and literature. I would like a photography class, but, despite the education system, no one actually speaks english in hong kong. Not really at least.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Not having a darkroom, my answer is probably not the right solution for you, but you did ask for the best solution. So, here it is:

http://www.hassmfg.com/search.pl/1213638750-2927?keyword=1092

In my opinion, that's by far the best (unfortunately not very cheap) solution.

 

[hpulley]

If your changing bag is good and you wear long sleeved shirts and your watch doesn't have luminescent hands (my main watch does so I always take it off) then you shouldn't have a problem while putting the film on the reel.

With steel tanks there should be no issue. You are just opening the little top lid right, not the whole top of the tank which would let light in.

Have you had any rolls from that camera professionally developed? Were they fogged? Could it be your film holder which is not light tight?

Are you shooting large format? If so, how is your load and unload technique?

 

[Worker 11811]

...When i overload the film tank, water leaks out of the side, not the top...

It might not be the cause of a light leak but, if water leaks out, that's still not good.

Are you using a plastic, screw-top tank? (AKA: "Paterson tank.")
There is supposed to be a gasket around the rim of the tank. It's made of thin plastic. It slips inside the lip of the tank. If it's not properly seated or if it's missing or damaged, it will allow water and chemistry to leak out.

Although it's not likely to be the cause of a light leak, you should still solve this problem. Spilled photo chemistry can stain surfaces and fabrics where it is spilled. It can cause skin rashes if too much of it spills on your hands and clothes. (Sensitivity over time.) Furthermore, you don't want your expensive chemistry going down the drain before its time.

Temperature control:
I keep a plastic cat litter tray (never used by a cat ) in my sink to make a water bath for my chems. I use glass, Pyrex measuring cups. I like them because they have handles and pouring spouts. (I don't use them to measure.)

I run water into the tray with a rubber hose on the faucet. I make it as close to 20º C. as possible. Let the water run very slowly so a little bit trickles out, over the edge. Running the water into the tray builds a reservoir of water at the correct temperature that will help smooth out variations over time.

Second, I pour a bucket full of hot water before I start and keep it on hand.
I pour my stock solution chemistry into my measuring beaker and read its temperature. Then, I add hot (warm) water until the temperature is where I want it. (20º C.) From that point, I can just add water from my reservoir till I have the volume I need.

If I have chemistry that is not diluted from stock or which is already properly diluted but not at the correct temperature, I submerge my measuring cup into the bucket of hot (or cold) water and stir until it's at the right temperature. (Stop about half a degree short of the mark to account for the thermal mass of the glass.)

Once, I have everything at the temperature I want, I set it in my cat tray temperature bath while it is waiting to be used. I hook the handles of the measuring cups over the edge of the tray to prevent spilling.

From that point, I just pour them in and shake them up!

 

[Bill Burk]

If you can show us the foggy negatives somehow it may help troubleshoot. Maybe you can describe the fog pattern, sometimes the patterns come from a direction that add up and makes sense with a theory.

If you leave a few shots on the end of the next roll you develop and then that part is foggy, you can rule out the camera. If the lid of your metal tank leaks around the edges, it might be dented. Some metal tanks have plastic lids, does yours? Could that be cracked?