Differences between Mamiya Six (folder) and Agfa Isolette Super

AlexiaMane · Jan 1, 2021

Hello,

I'm looking into buying a folder and the 2 options I'm considering are the Agfa Super Isolette and one of the latest models of the Mamiya six folder camera.

What are the biggest differences between the two? Why should I consider spending 300-400 euros more on the Agfa Super Isolette? What model of the Mamiya six would you recommend? Which one would be easier to fix if I break it somehow?

I'm very new to folders so I'd love it if anyone could share some tips!

Thanks!

Alex Varas · Jan 1, 2021

Welcome and Happy New Year!

I can’t tell about Mamiya 6 myself, only about other friends said and it seems a good camera.
I can tell about Super Isolette, it’s wonderful, I recommend it!
You may consider Iskra, if you find one with the counter working and the rest is on place it’s as good as Super Isolette but with bigger viewfinder and bigger patch for focusing.

LittleParallelograms · Jan 1, 2021

It's actually possible to have a bit of the Mamiya and Agfa together, as crazy as that sounds. My Mamiya-6 actually has a 75mm Agfa Solinar lens on it, taken from an Isolette II. When set at infinity the lens (and shutter) works perfectly on the Mamiya and is quite sharp. The original Sekor lens had fungus and a misfiring shutter, so I replaced it immediately, and haven't compared the 2 optically.

Some samples:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/littleparallelograms/albums/72157713067829501

I also have an Iskra which is a copy of a Super Isolette. Handling and ergonomics-wise, the Mamiya-6 is clearly the better of those 2. The rear wheel focusing is the best I have used on any folder. And film flatness is excellent. The lens on the Iskra is very sharp and contrast-y, though, a bit better and more 'modern' than the Solinar.

So from my perspective, I would not pay the extra for the Super Isolette. And the optics, as fine as they are, are still using 1950s coatings and are only really great for black and white in my opinion, although it would be fine for Ektar or slide film.

Ariston · Jan 1, 2021

I'm the opposite of Alex. I can only tell about the Six. It is a great camera with a great, contrasty lens. You can also focus BEFORE extending the lens. I have the version that shoots 6x6 or 4.5x6. If you get this version, make sure the seller has the mask.

The Isolettes look like great cameras, too.

Ariston · Jan 1, 2021

Here are a couple of test shots taken right after I got the camera:

Edit: These are compressed to 2 megabytes - I can't seem to upload to Photrio otherwise. They are sharper in their original form. It really is a great lens.

Alex Varas · Jan 1, 2021

Ariston said:
I'm the opposite of Alex. I can only tell about the Six. It is a great camera with a great, contrasty lens. You can also focus BEFORE extending the lens. I have the version that shoots 6x6 or 4.5x6. If you get this version, make sure the seller has the mask.

The Isolettes look like great cameras, too.

I might have to buy one and try
What version would you recommend?
I’m glasses wearer so... how is the viewfinder of the Six?

MattKing · Jan 1, 2021

Ariston said:
These are compressed to 2 megabytes - I can't seem to upload to Photrio otherwise.

No one can. If you try, sometimes the uploader appears to be letting you do it, but actually it is resizing the file down first.
It is a bandwidth issue.

Ariston · Jan 1, 2021

alexvaras said:
I might have to buy one and try
What version would you recommend?
I’m glasses wearer so... how is the viewfinder of the Six?

The viewfinder is a little better than that of my Super Ikonta, but not much. It may be a little tough with glasses.

I would recommend the version with 6x6 and 6x4.5, just because I like the option. I think it is called Model K, but double check.

removed account4 · Jan 1, 2021

I’ve had a few mamiya six folders.. never had an isolette .. I am guessing the isolette is a great camera, but does it have a quirky way of setting /resetting the exposure counter? And a wacky plate to keep the film flat inside the camera .. that sometimes gets separated from the camera rendering it useless? A couple of fun things sometimes overlooked ... I would use one hands down if offered one...
Have fun!

xya · Jan 1, 2021

MattKing said:
No one can. If you try, sometimes the uploader appears to be letting you do it, but actually it is resizing the file down first.
It is a bandwidth issue.

but you can host the image elsewhere and put a link into your message. if the image has reasonable size, let's say up to 1400 pixel, you can put the link between img and /img tags (the tags have each to be between [ ] ) like this

if it's bigger, put a plain link like this http://www.subcompactcam.com/scans/120/agfa_record_III/551_img003.jpg (more than 8000 pixel full scan)

the image was taken with a solinar 6x9 105mm lens on an agfa record. the solinar is a superb lens. I have had isolettes with apotar lenses, but none with a solinar, too expensive to my taste and means.

I have had several mamiya 6 folders, they are very good.

I would also recommend an iskra, if you find one that works perfectly. the automatic film advance is a marvel and the lens is very good as well.

AlexiaMane · Jan 1, 2021

Happy new year everyone! Thanks for your replies, I'm happy I joined this forum! I'll definitely be looking into the Iskra as well. So as from what I've read, there really is no huge difference between the Isolette and the Mamiya? I do like the look of the Isolette more but that's not worth the extra amount of money for me. I'll be on the lookout for a Mamiya in good condition then!

AlexiaMane · Jan 2, 2021

I've found a fully working (tested) Iskra PM7640 for 70 euros in total, should I wait for a mint Mamiya six to pop up or just go for the Iskra?

moto-uno · Jan 2, 2021

One thing to make sure of with the "tested" Iskra is if the self timer works . Great lens and a body of substance .
Also if the seller has tested it with film , ask to see a complete negative scan and check for the small pin pricks
the film counter wheel leaves in the negative . Peter

moto-uno · Jan 2, 2021

moto-uno · Jan 2, 2021

Notice the even spacing of the small dots on the bottom , this is the way the camera spaces the negatives , If the rear door has
a red window it usually means this has failed . Peter

Alex Varas · Jan 2, 2021

I would follow Peter’s advice.
That price is good, locally the full working pop up rarely and they are from 80-100$ normally.

R.Gould · Jan 3, 2021

Both the Issolete and the Mamiya are great cameras, with great lenses, but beware if buying the Agfa as for some reason the bellows on the Issolete were made from inferior leather or plastic, and 99% of them have pinholes in the corners, I have had several and every one of them I have had to either repair the bellows or replace them, there seems to be quite a cottage industry with the Issolette bellows, they were the only folders that I have had bellows problems with, in 20 years of collecting/using them

halfaman · Jan 3, 2021

I am also a big Iskra supporter. The lens is excelent, just be sure the film advance mechanism is working. Mine has light leaks on the camera back, easily solved using the ever-ready case, and an unreliable camera shutter release mechanism but you can do it manually when it fails (the shutter is in the lens).

fs999 · Jan 4, 2021

Super Isolette doesn't have a frame window.
The film is loaded automatically to the first frame.
The counter is between the shutter button and the film advance knob.
There is also a security so you cannot close the lens until the focus is set to infinity.

Alex Varas · Jan 4, 2021

Same as Iskra... now I’m redoing one working Iskra from two bodies, one body had working counter but abused bed cam and bellows so I moved it to another Iskra which counter was broken, let’s see how it ends

halfaman · Jan 4, 2021

fs999 said:
Super Isolette doesn't have a frame window..

A Super Isolette with frame window is a very bad sign. Either it is not a Super Isolette or the advance mechasism is broken.

Donald Qualls · Jan 4, 2021

One other significant difference -- most Mamiya 6 versions (all but the Automat, AFAIK) had captive masks to allow shooting either 6x6 or 6x4.5. The ones with automatic counter (older versions use dual red windows with a lockout so you couldn't forget which format you were shooting in mid-roll) had a switch near the advance knob to set 12 or 16 frame count.

Ariston · Jan 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
One other significant difference -- most Mamiya 6 versions (all but the Automat, AFAIK) had captive masks to allow shooting either 6x6 or 6x4.5. The ones with automatic counter (older versions use dual red windows with a lockout so you couldn't forget which format you were shooting in mid-roll) had a switch near the advance knob to set 12 or 16 frame count.

I don’t think this is correct. I think there were only one or two versions that shot 6x4.5 in addition to 6x6. That’s how I remember it from when I was looking for one, at least. I may be misremembering.

Donald Qualls · Jan 4, 2021

It's a little confusing to go by eBay listings, even with good photographs, because the dual format versions with mechanical counters had only a single red window for starting the counter -- but if the photos are too small or insufficiently detailed to see the selector (on the back of the top cover, just behind/below the advance knob), you could miss the dual format capability. AFAIK it was only the first version that had no counter and no dual red window, and only the very last, the Automat (no red window, counter automatically started by either film detection or arrows, I'm not certain which -- also cocked the shutter on advance) among frame counter models that didn't have dual format. There were at least three versions in between that had the captive masks and, by one means or another, the ability to manage film advance for either format.

Ariston · Jan 4, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
It's a little confusing to go by eBay listings, even with good photographs, because the dual format versions with mechanical counters had only a single red window for starting the counter -- but if the photos are too small or insufficiently detailed to see the selector (on the back of the top cover, just behind/below the advance knob), you could miss the dual format capability. AFAIK it was only the first version that had no counter and no dual red window, and only the very last, the Automat (no red window, counter automatically started by either film detection or arrows, I'm not certain which -- also cocked the shutter on advance) among frame counter models that didn't have dual format. There were at least three versions in between that had the captive masks and, by one means or another, the ability to manage film advance for either format.

Good to know! I'm glad I got one with the two windows. I would not have known to look for the masks if I had bought any other, and they were surely missing.

Differences between Mamiya Six (folder) and Agfa Isolette Super

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