Diafine+Rodinal--Anyone have a recipe for a mixture?

superloaf · Oct 27, 2007

so i really like the look of rodinal. but i hate grain. so i'm wondering if there is a mixture of diafine and rodinal that could bridge the two? in theory that would be my ideal developer.

anyone ever try this or have any further info?

thanks

gainer · Oct 27, 2007

Not that, but adding ascorbate to Rodinal makes a considerable difference in grain without much difference in other aspects. You must use the ascorbate or the pH does too far down. Mix 1 teaspoon of ascorbic acid powder with 1/2 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate in a couple of ounces of water and when the fizzing subsides, use it as part of the water to make a liter of 1+50 Rodinal working solution. Treat it about the same as 1+25 Rodinal. This combination is discussed in www.unblinkingeye.com.

I don't know for sure what is in Diafine, but I doubt it will be as copasthetic as the ascorbate.

Ian Grant · Oct 27, 2007

Why don't you try Pyrocat HD or adapt the (there was a url link here which no longer exists). Alternately look for some of Barry Thorntons published two bath formula.

The original Promicrol would probably be the closest to what your looking for, or Agfa Atomal. Calbe make a reformulated version of Atomal A-49 using CD-2 and Pyrocatechin, there is a formula posted on the internet. And then you could look at Crawleys FX10.

Ian

jim appleyard · Oct 27, 2007

This is a combo that never would have occured to me. I've never used Diafine (although it's on my list), but it's used to push film while Rodinal is not. Despite its name, Diafine is reported to be a non-fine-grain dev. Rodinal is non-fine-grain as well.

I'm not sure if the two of these would click together. Perhaps after investing several rolls of film and globs of developer you may find the mark, but film isn't as inexpensive as it used to be; Tri-X nearing $50 for 100'!!!

My advice is to stick to something already tried.

gainer · Oct 27, 2007

The combination of Rodinal with ascorbate has already been tried. Read the article.

jim appleyard · Oct 27, 2007

Yes, I've read it and tried it. It works and was included in my list of "already tried & true".

gainer · Oct 27, 2007

For those who haven't read it, it is in www.unblinkingeye.com in an article by Ed Buffaloe entitled "Appreciating Rodinal" which has lots of good stuff in it about Rodinal.

eclarke · Oct 27, 2007

superloaf said:
so i really like the look of rodinal. but i hate grain. so i'm wondering if there is a mixture of diafine and rodinal that could bridge the two? in theory that would be my ideal developer.

anyone ever try this or have any further info?

thanks

What film???..EC

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 27, 2007

superloaf said:
so i really like the look of rodinal. but i hate grain. so i'm wondering if there is a mixture of diafine and rodinal that could bridge the two? in theory that would be my ideal developer.

anyone ever try this or have any further info?

thanks

In the Diafine A MSDS, Hydroquinone is the only ingredient listed. It is reasonable to speculate that a small amount of Phenidone is also present.

Here is a Diafine substitute recipe: (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 27, 2007

Try Pyrocat - PC

superloaf said:
so i really like the look of rodinal. but i hate grain. so i'm wondering if there is a mixture of diafine and rodinal that could bridge the two? in theory that would be my ideal developer.

anyone ever try this or have any further info?

thanks

You want the P-Aminophenol look (aka Rodinal) but with finer grain, so I recommend Pyrocat-PC. It works great!

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

superloaf · Nov 1, 2007

eclarke said:
What film???..EC

i'm thinking acros 100 but also like neopan 400. i just tried some acros in rodinal and like the look but i really don't like grain at all. i like the look of fomapan 100 also but just shot my first roll in the last few days and haven't dipped it yet. other films to consider: pan f, fp4, apx 100

thanks for all the info everyone.

i really want to try pyro too and i'm sure i don't have to tell you guys but the combinations of film/developers becomes mindboggling very quickly.

i've pretty much been shooting neopan 400@200 devp. in D-76 1:1 for most of my shooting. this combo works quite well but i'm searching for something with a little more range to it. this combo has nice shadows (especially when using strobes) and pure whites that really don't seem to blow out even @ 50-100 EI but lacks some mid tones. also, it's quite good with the grain but anything that allows less grain is fine by me.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 1, 2007

superloaf said:
i'm thinking acros 100 but also like neopan 400. i just tried some acros in rodinal and like the look but i really don't like grain at all. i like the look of fomapan 100 also but just shot my first roll in the last few days and haven't dipped it yet. other films to consider: pan f, fp4, apx 100

thanks for all the info everyone.

i really want to try pyro too and i'm sure i don't have to tell you guys but the combinations of film/developers becomes mindboggling very quickly.

i've pretty much been shooting neopan 400@200 devp. in D-76 1:1 for most of my shooting. this combo works quite well but i'm searching for something with a little more range to it. this combo has nice shadows (especially when using strobes) and pure whites that really don't seem to blow out even @ 50-100 EI but lacks some mid tones. also, it's quite good with the grain but anything that allows less grain is fine by me.

Once again: I recommend Pyrocat-PC (P-Aminophenol - Ascorbic Acid). In my experience, using the 1 + 1 + 100 dilution and developing semi-stand for 14 to 18 minutes at 72C, Pyrocat-PC works great with both Neopan 400 and with Fomapan 200.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

superloaf · Nov 1, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Once again: I recommend Pyrocat-PC (P-Aminophenol - Ascorbic Acid). In my experience, using the 1 + 1 + 100 dilution and developing semi-stand for 14 to 18 minutes at 72C, Pyrocat-PC works great with both Neopan 400 and with Fomapan 200.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

that link doesn't work^^

yeah, the pyro stuff sounds interesting. i definitely have to try it.

how different is that from rodinal + ascorbic acid?

the pyro is a stain, correct? other than that, it sounds similar to rodinal+ascorbic. is the lack of grain a factor of adding ascorbic acid or from the stain or both? (forgive my questions as i'm just getting into all of this and as i've already stated, the combos become mindboggling.)

also, saw the post on metol+sulfite/ascorbic acid. this seems similar except that it appears to be too grainy for my tastes. am i understanding things correctly or . . . ?

thanks to all--i'll grasp all of this, i promise!

gainer · Nov 1, 2007

You can't just choose a developer and say "Grain, begone!" and have it actually happen. Grains are the carriers of images. There are times when one cannot see a forest for the trees, but without the trees there is no forest. Same with film. Digital wont cure the problem. It just sets the grains in orderly rows, like a replanted clearcut. Developer is not the final cure. One may get objectionable grain or not with any develper that is capable of giving a sharp image. Too much or too little exposure or development or both works more magic than poor choice of materials.

Can you tell I'm getting old?

gainer · Nov 1, 2007

superloaf said:
that link doesn't work^^

yeah, the pyro stuff sounds interesting. i definitely have to try it.

how different is that from rodinal + ascorbic acid?

the pyro is a stain, correct? other than that, it sounds similar to rodinal+ascorbic. is the lack of grain a factor of adding ascorbic acid or from the stain or both? (forgive my questions as i'm just getting into all of this and as i've already stated, the combos become mindboggling.)

also, saw the post on metol+sulfite/ascorbic acid. this seems similar except that it appears to be too grainy for my tastes. am i understanding things correctly or . . . ?

thanks to all--i'll grasp all of this, i promise!

Pyro is a term that usually means pyrogallol, or 1,2,3 trihydroxybenzene, which is usually a staining developer and just about always a tanning developer that makes the image stand out in relief in the emulsion. Pyrocat is short for Pyrocatechin or pyrocatechol or catechol or 1,2 dihydroxybenzene, also a staining and tanning developing agent. Whether you get staining depends a lot on how much sulfite is in the developer. Less sulfite = more staining.

jim appleyard · Nov 1, 2007

gainer said:
Whether you get staining depends a lot on how much sulfite is in the developer. Less sulfite = more staining.

Correct, but it also depends on the film used. What's
left of my APX 100 loves Pytocat HD and really shows a good, heavy stain. Ilford's Pan-F doesn't show much stain at all with PC-HD.

superloaf · Nov 2, 2007

and is the main purpose of the stain to mask the grain?

Ian Grant · Nov 2, 2007

superloaf said:
and is the main purpose of the stain to mask the grain?

No, many are using Pyrocat to produce negatives for alternative processes and the stain amplifies the silver image. This is what Sandy King designed the developer for as well as for dual use to produce negatives that will print on normal bromide, bromo-chloride etc papers.

Going back to Patrick Gainers comment "You can't just choose a developer and say "Grain, begone!" and have it actually happen." and your own comments about Rodinal. Some love Rodinal others hate it, but it is capable of producing excellent negatives (35mm and upwards) and prints which have good tonality and sharpness alongside fine grain. but Rodinal works best with modern films like APX100 and Tmax100, and the results from 35mm film are superb.

Ian

Diafine+Rodinal--Anyone have a recipe for a mixture?

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