Development Tank design

marsbars · Jun 7, 2007

I know that this is a simple and stupid question but is a stainless tank also a daylight tank like a plastic one? I have never handled either and there is no place within a short distance that I know of where I can go and handle one to see the true differences. I am trying to put my equipment list together and this is the one item that is confusing me. Plus I have to submit it all past the better half and I know that she doesn't care all that much but she prefers me to spend my hard earned money on items that will last under my usually clumsy use. That would be why I still shoot film with old cameras from the 60's and 70's as they are built like tanks.
I am currently looking at a SS 2 reel tank, but I have read that the plastic ones are easier to learn to load. However are the plastic ones durable? I was looking at the Jobo 1500 2 reel tank as I have heard more good than bad about them and the fact that I can add an extension later if I want to start doing more rolls in one session.
I don't want to spend a mint and I am too lazy to search out ebay and there are no photo fairs near me so I am going to be buying new from somewhere like B&H. So suggestions on type and manufacturer are greatly appreciated.

Nick Zentena · Jun 7, 2007

If you don't step on them or otherwise mistreat them the Jobo plastic reels should out live you. I think Jobo still sells Hewes metal reels for those tanks. So you could go either way.

srs5694 · Jun 7, 2007

marsbars said:
I know that this is a simple and stupid question but is a stainless tank also a daylight tank like a plastic one?

Yes. A "daylight tank" is just a tank that can be used in normal room lighting (theoretically in daylight, I suppose, but few people use them outdoors). Once loaded, modern plastic and stainless tanks are about equally light-tight -- or at least, if there are differences, I don't know what they are.

I have never handled either and there is no place within a short distance that I know of where I can go and handle one to see the true differences.

Some observations that spring to mind:

(Obvious stainless steel vs. plastic construction. Note that most stainless steel tanks have a rubbery black plastic lid, although some have stainless steel lids.
Stainless tank lids are generally narrower than those of plastic tanks, which may have implications for pouring in solutions, depending on the type of bottles you use.
Stainless tanks are physically smaller than plastic tanks with the same capacity (in number of rolls) and the stainless tanks generally use less solution (which you know from previous threads you've initiated).
Stainless tanks' lids generally just pop on and off, like the lids to plastic margarine containers (but with a tighter fit). Plastic tanks' lids generally screw on.
Stainless tanks usually have no central spindle; reels just drop into the empty interior. Plastic tanks generally have a central spindle; you slide the reels onto the spindle and insert the spindle/reel assembly. This is necessary because of the way the lightproofing works on the stainless vs. plastic tanks' lids.
Stainless tanks generally have fewer parts than do plastic tanks: The tank, the lid, the smaller lid-within-a-lid, and the reels. Plastic tanks have these parts plus the central core and usually a washer to reduce leakage. (Designs can vary a bit, though.)

I am currently looking at a SS 2 reel tank, but I have read that the plastic ones are easier to learn to load. However are the plastic ones durable?

I've heard of people using plastic tanks for decades. Ditto for stainless tanks. Of course, either type can break or be damaged. The reels seem to be more likely to break than the tanks, for both types. Stainless reels can get bent out of shape if they're dropped (particularly for the cheaper types; this is one of the advantages of Hewes reels, which are made from thicker metal and therefore get bent less easily). Plastic reels can break, develop small pits and dents that make them hard to load, or get gummed up with chemicals.

The bottom line, IMHO: Both types of tank work. If one were phenomenally superior to the other, the inferior type wouldn't survive in the marketplace. You might prefer one to the other, but without actually trying both (and perhaps multiple brands within each type), you won't know what your preference is. Therefore, you should just pick one and go with it. In a worst-case scenario, you'll decide you don't like it and buy a sample of the other type. (Maybe you could arrange a trade, if your spouse objects to your buying a replacement for a working tank.)

Konical · Jun 7, 2007

Good Evening, Marsbars,

"I am too lazy to search out ebay. . ."

It's worth the small effort involved. SS equipment often goes for a pittance there.

In addition to the comments above: 1--Go for quality reels (Hewes and Kinderman are both excellent and particularly easy to load) and don't worry much about the tank brand. 2--Do a Forum Search on the topic and enjoy a plethora of comments on the plastic vs. SS issue as well as lots of detailed general information. We've almost beaten this matter to death in the past.

Konical

marsbars · Jun 8, 2007

Well after looking at all of the choices out there I am thinking that I will go with a jobo 1500 series. A bit more expensive when it comes to tanks but the expandability makes draws me to it also who knows someday i might have the money to get the auto processor that works with it.

Kevin Caulfield · Jun 8, 2007

I have the Samigon tank from B&H which is stainless and does include a centre spindle (which is simple but effective). That may be a bit tricky to use as it has a stainless lid. I also have another one with a plastic lid which is much easier to fit. The stainless lid can definitely sometimes cause you grief because of the friction fit, but it's a great design.

Roger Hicks · Jun 8, 2007

One more thought:

If you use stainless tanks with stainless lids, cut a section of inner tube (go to someone specializing in vintage motorcycles to find these) as a tank seal, a big elastic band that covers the lid/tank join, which often leaks very slightly otherwise.

Incidentally I'm still using Kindermann stainless tanks bought 30+ years ago, though Hewes reels are even better than Kindermann.

Cheers,

Roger

marsbars · Jun 8, 2007

Thanks for all the input, and as always more is always appreciated. After my experience at the lab today I am more than going ahead with my own developing. If you care to read my rant goto the B&W forum here at APUG.

Anscojohn · Jun 8, 2007

marsbars said:
I know that this is a simple and stupid question but is a stainless tank also a daylight tank like a plastic one? I have never

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You might find that plastic reels are easier to load, especially with medium format film--provided they are clean and dry.

Anscojohn, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

Ulrich Drolshagen · Jun 9, 2007

Hi,

tanks made from steel may have more temperature issues compared to the plastic variety. You may have to warm them up just before use. With plastic tanks this is not nessasary under most circumstances.

Ulrich

Fotohuis · Jun 9, 2007

Your best Jobo choice will be the 1520 tank suitable for 2x 135-36 films or 2x 120 roll films. You need an extra reel 1501 with it to complete it for 2x 135-36 development. Internal minimum volume 485ml but 500ml is also possible. Extension is possible with e.g. the 1530 module for more capacity. Also spare parts can be ordered.
Never store a Jobo tank under pressure because then it's going to leak. With the right care you can use it for a very long time.

Best regards,

Robert

Roger Hicks · Jun 9, 2007

Ulrich Drolshagen said:
Hi,

tanks made from steel may have more temperature issues compared to the plastic variety. You may have to warm them up just before use. With plastic tanks this is not nessasary under most circumstances.

Ulrich

Dear Ulrich,

You may have thought this more clearly than I, but in case I am right, I proffer the following thought.

The thermal capacity of a stainless tank (the amount of heat required to bring it to the temperature of the developer) is far smaller than the thermal capacity of a plastic tank, as it its heat conductivity; the latter is why the stainless tank feels warmer in the hand.

If a plastic tank is significantly below the processing temperature, it will therefore require more warming, not less, but it will lose heat more slowly. The stainless tanks therefore require more heat maintenance (via a water-bath) than plastic.

If this is a false analysis, I can only blam it on the wine I drank with dinner, and the Nardini grappa I followed it with; but I think it is correct.

Cheers,

Roger

Development Tank design

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