Development question - creating unsharp masks

Fatih Ayoglu

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Hi all,

As I am experimenting with different solutions to create unsharp masks (a positive of the negative) I can develop a low contrast Foma100 film with Ilford PQ 1+50 at 4:30.

However I’d like to improve the quality of the masks by increasing actual highlights development. Obviously I can do that by extending the development time however it will also increase max density of the mask above 0.4 du which I’d like to keep at.

So my question is, can I add any chemical into the developer to make sure max du doesn’t pass 0.4 however the actual highlights (and midtones) get further developed.

I hope I manage to explain my issue.

Many thanks,
Fatih
 

MattKing

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Thread title tweaked to make the thread easier to locate.
Based on an unscientific guess, there must be a bazillion threads on Photrio asking a "Development Question".
Hope you get the answer you need.
 

Milpool

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I’m not sure I’m following. Are you trying to create a steeper gradient/shorter exposure range with the same max density in the mask?

What type of unsharp mask are you trying to make? A standard unsharp/CRM or something else?
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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Milpool said:
I’m not sure I’m following. Are you trying to create a steeper gradient/shorter exposure range with the same max density in the mask?

What type of unsharp mask are you trying to make? A standard unsharp/CRM or something else?
Click to expand...

Standard unsharp/CRM. Obviously CRM has a steeper curve, so mid to high tones are not effected.

I’m trying to make a smoother curve where max shadow density is somewhere around 0.4 du and have a much tapered curve so zone 7/8 is slightly effected as well.

I can do that by extending developing time but that also increase shadow density, which I’m trying to block.
 

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Milpool

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Fatih Ayoglu said:
I have benzotriazole, would that help me to achieve this?
Click to expand...

If I’m understanding correctly you want a steeper slope to your mask curve in comparison with the example curve (and you would like a relatively linear mask also).

This will require some trial and error and there are several things you can try.

Remember that for a basic CRM it’s the contrast (slope) that matters, so just give the mask more development. Even if it is attenuating the highest negative Zones, it is attenuating the lowest negative Zones more. Your mask will have a higher density range than 0.4 but that’s ok.

Alternatively if you really want the max mask density to remain 0.4, you can try giving the mask less exposure and more development in an attempt to give it a steeper slope with less density in the higher negative Zones, although if you’re on the toe of the film you might not get the curve shape you want. Adding some Benzotriazole to the developer might also help you do this by reducing effective film speed/increasing contrast. Or you could try a so-called sub-proportional reducer on the mask. A cutting reducer can also help if the mask has the right contrast and you want to remove density.

You could also try a higher contrast film, or a developer that gives a film a more linear curve.
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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I am trying to get a smoother curve not steeper (if I understand the difference correctly). So essentially lift the curve around zone 7 onwards...

So I dont want my shadows too dark (in a positive image), meanwhile my mid and hightones have been developed. So essentially I am trying to achieve lowest contrast possible.

(For CRM, I would need a higher contrast, if I am not wrong)
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I used to make unsharp masks all the time. Give a bit less exposure, and longer development time, or try a stronger dilution of your developer.
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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Thanks Andrew, yes I will try a longer developing time, with less agitation, maybe that will help to main

I have tested stronger developer but then it creates a stronger contrast
 

Nicholas Lindan

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You might look into making the mask using an 'all toe' film like the sheet film version of Plus-X (?? my memory may be faulty on the version of PX). Google for films with an upswept / all-toe HD curve.

These films were used in portrait studios - most have been discontinued.
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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Sadly... That's why we need to be creative
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I tried many films over the years, and TMX 100 topped the list... but it sadly became the film for the rich, especially in 8x10. Next best bet was FP4. I've also used with great success, lith films. I even tried XRAY, which worked quite well...cheap as hell, too!
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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To use for my FP4 negatives, I am planning to use Foma100 and to use for my C41 negatives, I am planning to use FP4 to create masks

I have also tried Arista Ortho but the contrast is always higher with those and I keep them for CRM masks...
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Fatih Ayoglu said:
To use for my FP4 negatives, I am planning to use Foma100 and to use for my C41 negatives, I am planning to use FP4 to create masks

I have also tried Arista Ortho but the contrast is always higher with those and I keep them for CRM masks...
Click to expand...

I've used Arista Ortho. It's wonderful stuff in the right developer, such as LC-1 (mix from scratch developer) diluted at 1+5.
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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I have found this:
750ml distilled water at 125F
4 g Metol
80 g Sodium sulfite
4 g Hydroquinone
20 g Sodium bisulfite
add distilled cold water to make 1 liter stock solution

Also somebody mentioned;
TEA 75ml
Ascorbic acid .5g
Phenidone 3.5g
TEA to 100ml

But I dont know what TEA is, the last one is similar to Muir's SoftShot without BTZ, KOH etc.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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The TEA one looks like Jay DeFehr's. TEA is Triethanolamine. It prolongs the developer stock's life, and is also a developing agent. I order mine from Amazon.

​

 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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@Andrew O'Neill , precisely, I've found that on LF forum, submitted by him. I will reach out to him if he has optimised his formula.

But recently I have tested PQ1+60, 8 min development for F100 film with reduced exposure, it gives a smoother curve with 0.45du difference. I will test further lowering exposure and extending the development time. Once it becomes too long, I will change the concentration of the developer to make stronger, maybe 1+50 or 1+40 to shorten dev time but to keep the curve similar. Thankfully F100 is not so expensive to go through this test
 

Randy Stewart

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Andrew O'Neill said:
I've used Arista Ortho. It's wonderful stuff in the right developer, such as LC-1 (mix from scratch developer) diluted at 1+5.
Click to expand...

I used Kodak Pan Masking Film many years ago to tame Cibachrome. Sadly, both are history, although I think I have one unopened 4x5 box of Pan Masking film in the freezer. Today, for B&W masking, I use Arista Ortho, which works perfectly well, and it adds the advantage of being able to work with it under a red safelight. I use the same developer specified for the Pan Masking film way back when. I think it was a diluted DK-50, but I cannot presently access my notes to be sure. Masking can do wonders for a troublesome negative, in lieu of complex dodging and burning. I wish someone sold pin register equipment to work with 35mm and medium format. The few offered are tailored to 4x5 and larger formats, and they do not scale down very practically.
 
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Fatih Ayoglu

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I use the same setup for 4x5 and MF films and follow Lynn’s pin register idea. Instead of using 1” strips for the 4x5 negative, I use 4.9cm strips for MF negatives which works fine.
 
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