Development problem

Harry Lime · Dec 28, 2007

Ok, I'm stumped and could use some advice.

My standard developer for the past few years has been Ilford DD-X. I probably use 2 bottles a month, sometimes more, to develop Tri-X and Delta3200.

About 6 weeks ago I noticed that suddenly my negatives were coming out strongly underdeveloped, while using my standard time, temperature and agitation methods. I've been using the same procedure for years, without a hitch and have been getting very consistent results.

So, I checked that my tank etc weren't contaminated with fixer or something else.

New batch of film, same result.

So, I chucked the bottle, thinking that I may have gotten a bad one.

New bottle same results.

I tried extending the time and had some success, but things were still not quite right. Besides this didn't make much sense. Why would things suddenly change so radically after all of these years?

Then I checked the batch number on the bottle. They were from the same batch.

I went to a different store and found a bottle from a different batch.

This time everything came out fine and as expected.

I used up the new bottle and picked up an additional two (same batch).

The problem returned.

So, now I'm stumped.

The temperature is correct, the dilution is correct, the equipment is clean. I'm using the same times, temperature and agitation that I have been using for years and I can't seem to solve this problem.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

thanks

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 28, 2007

Harry Lime said:
Ok, I'm stumped and could use some advice.

My standard developer for the past few years has been Ilford DD-X. I probably use 2 bottles a month, sometimes more, to develop Tri-X and Delta3200.

About 6 weeks ago I noticed that suddenly my negatives were coming out strongly underdeveloped, while using my standard time, temperature and agitation methods. I've been using the same procedure for years, without a hitch and have been getting very consistent results.

So, I checked that my tank etc weren't contaminated with fixer or something else.

New batch of film, same result.

So, I chucked the bottle, thinking that I may have gotten a bad one.

New bottle same results.

I tried extending the time and had some success, but things were still not quite right. Besides this didn't make much sense. Why would things suddenly change so radically and suddenly after all of these years?

Then I checked the batch number on the bottle. They were from the same batch.

I went to a different store and found a bottle from a different batch.

This time everything came out fine and as expected.

I used up the new bottle and picked up an additional two (same batch).

The problem returned.

So, now I'm stumped.

The temperature is correct, the dilution is correct, the equipment is clean. I'm using the same times, temperature and agitation that I have been using for years and I can't seem to solve this problem.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

thanks

How about your water, Harry. What is your water source? After experiencing the problems, have you tried mixing your developer with distilled water?

bdial · Dec 29, 2007

I agree with Tom, if you're on a city water supply, they may have introduced something to clean out the mains. From what you've described, water seems the most likely cause.

Harry Lime · Dec 29, 2007

bdial said:
I agree with Tom, if you're on a city water supply, they may have introduced something to clean out the mains. From what you've described, water seems the most likely cause.

Hmmmm. They are replacing the ancient water lines in my area. Maybe they are pumping more chlorine into the water. I'll try distilled water.

Very, very odd.

thanks

aldevo · Dec 29, 2007

If mixing the developer with distilled water fails to cure the problem, I'd try to get my hands on a second thermometer (preferably glass with alcohol) to verify the results from your first thermometer are correct.

It doesn't take a lot of abuse to cause a metal "dial" thermometer to read 3 or 4 degrees off.

dpurdy · Dec 29, 2007

I have had my thermometer go off or get some corrosion or something keeping it from reading right. I have had a couple of experiences pretty much just like yours and found my thermometer had gone off a couple degrees. Check the one you are using against another to see if that is possible.

dpurdy · Dec 29, 2007

Oh aldevo already said that. sorry
Dennis

George Collier · Dec 29, 2007

Second the motion on the distilled water. Too much time and work involved not to, for what it costs. (I get it in 5 gal jugs from the local spring water guy for about $6) It also sounds to me like the temp would have to be off more than 3-4 degrees for the extreme difference you describe, although I haven't used this film.

pentaxuser · Dec 29, 2007

Harry Lime said:
Then I checked the batch number on the bottle. They were from the same batch.

I went to a different store and found a bottle from a different batch.

This time everything came out fine and as expected.

thanks

Doesn't this cast serious doubts on the interference with the water supply theory. Unless the water corrected itself to coincide with the new batch and then went bad again when you bought more DDX which you say was from the same batch. Is this the same batch as the "good stuff" or a reversion to the same batch as the old "bad" stuff. If the reversion to bad was from the same batch as the previous "good" then this casts doubt on the bad batch theory as well or suggests an Ilford QC problem that is all over the place which seems very unlikely.

Sorry this isn't a solution but merely a question about the logic of the water supply probable cause.

Might be worth contacting Ilford.

pentaxuser

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 29, 2007

pentaxuser said:
Doesn't this cast serious doubts on the interference with the water supply theory. Unless the water corrected itself to coincide with the new batch and then went bad again when you bought more DDX which you say was from the same batch. Is this the same batch as the "good stuff" or a reversion to the same batch as the old "bad" stuff. If the reversion to bad was from the same batch as the previous "good" then this casts doubt on the bad batch theory as well or suggests an Ilford QC problem that is all over the place which seems very unlikely.

Sorry this isn't a solution but merely a question about the logic of the water supply probable cause.

Might be worth contacting Ilford.

pentaxuser

I'm just trying to rule some possible causes in or out.

In keeping with that philosophy, I would perform a simple activity test the of the suspect DDX. Take an approximately 1 inch piece of film that has been exposed to a strong light source and dunk it in a few ml of undiluted DDX - the film should quickly turn black if the developer is active.

Record the time required to blacken the film. Perform the same test with the new bottle of DDX. This should give you some data to send to Ilford.

Harry Lime · Dec 29, 2007

Thanks guy. This whole episode is very odd. I've been developing film for more than 10 years and only had a similar problem with a batch of XTOL I had mixed a few years ago (I traced the problem to the contents of the package being caked up, when I purchased it. Other than that Xtol works great.).

Anyhow, the pattern here is very odd. Two failures with two bottles from the same batch. Then a good bottle from a different batch and then a second bottle from the second batch that also failed.

I think I can rule out the water. I'll try distilled, but I don't think that's it.

A drop of 3-4 degrees should not have such drastic results. The negatives are seriously underdeveloped. I mean really underdeveloped.

Could the fixer fry the negs? I doubt it, but I'll also mix up a fresh batch of it.

thanks

Dave Miller · Dec 29, 2007

I can't think of anything that would point to the cause; so all I can offer is sympathy and a request that you keep us posted on developments (ouch, sorry, cringe).

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 29, 2007

Harry Lime said:
Thanks guy. This whole episode is very odd. I've been developing film for more than 10 years and only had a similar problem with a batch of XTOL I had mixed a few years ago (I traced the problem to the contents of the package being caked up, when I purchased it. Other than that Xtol works great.).

Anyhow, the pattern here is very odd. Two failures with two bottles from the same batch. Then a good bottle from a different batch and then a second bottle from the second batch that also failed.

I think I can rule out the water. I'll try distilled, but I don't think that's it.

A drop of 3-4 degrees should not have such drastic results. The negatives are seriously underdeveloped. I mean really underdeveloped.

Could the fixer fry the negs? I doubt it, but I'll also mix up a fresh batch of it.

thanks

Highly unlikely, IMO,that it is your fixer. Take a small piece of your (unexposed) film and dunk it in your fixer - and record the time it takes to clear the film.

If you performed the DDX stock concentrate activity test I recommended, take the piece of blackened test film (if the test film did not blacken - that indicts the DDX) and dunk it in your fixer - no observable density change should occur in 5x the clearing time obtained in the previous step.

Harry Lime · Dec 31, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
I'm just trying to rule some possible causes in or out.

In keeping with that philosophy, I would perform a simple activity test the of the suspect DDX. Take an approximately 1 inch piece of film that has been exposed to a strong light source and dunk it in a few ml of undiluted DDX - the film should quickly turn black if the developer is active.

Record the time required to blacken the film. Perform the same test with the new bottle of DDX. This should give you some data to send to Ilford.

Interesting results. I have three bottles of DDX, from two different batches.
Soaked a piece of leader from a roll of Tri-X in a sample from each bottle.

After about 8-10 minutes the emulsion side of each clip turns a much darker shade of the emulsion color, heading towards black.

So, the developer is active.

For some odd reason I can't find a store in London that stocks distilled water, so I grabbed a 5 liter bottle of spring water. At least it's different than the stuff coming out of my tap...

Development problem

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