Development issues (possible reticulation?). Please help.

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I'm getting issues with my recently developed roll of film (Aviphot) and getting some weird dots/granularity. I thought it was some kind of reticulation since there was a temperature difference between the developer and stop bath (water) or even with the fixed.

Yesterday I put all 3 liquids (developer, water for stop bath and fixer) at the same temperature and still get the same issue.

Detail:

It is more evident on clear/white areas




My last guess is either the film itself or the fixed. Dumping the fixer today an preparing new one and make a new test. I discard it as a fixer issue since I also developed some 4x5 and it was ok.

Film stock is Aviphot by the way. I had developed some rolls from the same 70mm roll without issues so not sure it is the film stock.

Any idea what this is about?

 

[Donald Qualls]

To my eye, those resemble the spots you'll get if the film was still cold when unsealed and moisture condensed on the emulsion. This will dissolve some of the sensitizing dyes, which will then redeposit where the droplets last existed, producing spots like what we see in the tight crop above.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

To my eye, those resemble the spots you'll get if the film was still cold when unsealed and moisture condensed on the emulsion. This will dissolve some of the sensitizing dyes, which will then redeposit where the droplets last existed, producing spots like what we see in the tight crop above.

Thanks Donald. You may have a point there. I usually remove the 70mm roll from the refrigerator 2 hours or so before cutting but I may skipped the last time I rolled 120 film. Also, it is much warmer and I have the a/c on in the room I reroll.

It would make sense that 4x5 film don't have the issue (even though the same chemistry was used) since I have the 24mmx74mts at a cool room temperature (the same room I cut film on) before cutting since there is no room for them on the
freezer.

I will take the 70mm roll from freezer two hours before cutting and see if it improves.

Thanks


Marcelo

 

[Ian Grant]

I will take the 70mm roll from freezer two hours before cutting and see if it improves.

Some years ago, on an Ilford factory tour, the company mentioned that issues with frozen film were usually related to the time unfreezing. They suggested placing the film in a refrigerator over-night first (between 3º to 5ºC). Then allowing the film to warm to room temperature the next day.

Ian

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Some years ago, on an Ilford factory tour, the company mentioned that issues with frozen film were usually related to the time unfreezing. They suggested placing the film in a refrigerator over-night first (between 3º to 5ºC). Then allowing the film to warm to room temperature the next day.

Ian

Got my film on refrigerator, not frozen. Just took them out of refrigerator after Donald comment. I will reroll on the afternoon and shot a test roll and develop. My cat is always ready to help

 

[snusmumriken]

Yes, it doesn’t look like reticulation to me.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Yes, it doesn’t look like reticulation to me.

Yeah didn't look like that to me either. Last time I got reticulation was on the 80's if my memory serve me right (probably Plus X or Panotomic) and didn't look like that, but that was the only think I could imagine given I used the same chemistry with 4x5 and didn't had the issue.

 

[Don_ih]

I have a bulk roll of 70mm Aviphot that is identical to that and I never refrigerated it. I assumed the film degraded in whatever storage it was in in India.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Rolled a new 120 from the same 70 mm roll and it display the same marks, Even though 70 mm has been at room temperature for hours. Maybe moisture affected the whole roll?

Got a second 70mm rolls that has been out of refrigerator since the morning. It is still unopened so hope I get a good roll. Also just to discard any fixer issues, will prepare a new batch as well. Hope for the best

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

You can perhaps fix a piece of film without developing it and check if you still get these spots.

You can also inspect the affected negative under a magnifying loupe and check if there is any physical damage.

The spots are black in the positive which probably hints at loss of density at these spots in the negatives. Could it be that your developer is Carbonate based and is producing emulsion damaging Carbon Dioxide microbubbles due to the acid stop bath? More details on your process is needed to understand what exactly is happening.

 

[mshchem]

How old is the film? See post 8.

Solution is to buy nice fresh Kentmere(economy) or Kodak TMX

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

You can perhaps fix a piece of film without developing it and check if you still get these spots.

You can also inspect the affected negative under a magnifying loupe and check if there is any physical damage.

The spots are black in the positive which probably hints at loss of density at these spots in the negatives. Could it be that your developer is Carbonate based and is producing emulsion damaging Carbon Dioxide microbubbles due to the acid stop bath? More details on your process is needed to understand what exactly is happening.

No carbonate based developer and no acid stop batch ( platinum water).

 

[mpirie]

How old is the film and under what conditions has it been stored?

To me, those marks look like mould spores that i saw on poorly kept 120 rolls previously, and confirmed to me by Ilford.

Mike

 

[koraks]

I have a bulk roll of 70mm Aviphot that is identical to that and I never refrigerated it. I assumed the film degraded in whatever storage it was in in India.

I don't think there's really much more ground for further speculation given the data point provided here by @Don_ih

It's apparently just poorly stored film that someone cut up and put onto the market.

The problems with this product are known and have been posted here before:

Agfa Aviphot 200 damage

Purchased on eBay from India some months ago. It has been sitting at room temperature next to other film, which is fine. Pulled out 2m to test slitting and rolling. Film was intermittently sticking when unraveling. It has big ugly blotches. What could those be?

www.photrio.com

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

It's apparently just poorly stored film that someone cut up and put onto the market.

The problems with this product are known and have been posted here before:

Agfa Aviphot 200 damage

Purchased on eBay from India some months ago. It has been sitting at room temperature next to other film, which is fine. Pulled out 2m to test slitting and rolling. Film was intermittently sticking when unraveling. It has big ugly blotches. What could those be?

www.photrio.com

These are photographic products that the Indian military allegedly procured many years ago for its use. At some point, the original buyer stopped using the products and the already procured but unused stuff was sent to a godown. In the recent past, someone got hold of this stuff and started selling it in bulk to resellers like vintage.hut who now sell the inidividual rolls in India to local customers and on eBay to global customers. The resellers have kept the rolls in good condition, I am told, but nobody knows how the rolls were stored in the godown or after they were flushed out of the godown. It's unlikely that adequate care was taken as that these were essentially trash from the point of view of the original buyer. The rolls have been a mixed bag in my experience. I bought some Aviphot and Plus X rolls and so far I haven't had bad experiences with them. However, the one Avitone roll I bought was completely unusable. The reseller graciously replaced it with another roll which too was unusable. OTOH grade 3 RC paper from the same source is excellent and shows no base fog despite the age. Several others have used this paper and have had positive experience with it.

 

[koraks]

Thanks for the background on this @Raghu Kuvempunagar - it illustrates very well how material from this source will be a mixed bag, but can still contain gems if one is willing to accept the risk of unknown outcomes.

 

[Don_ih]

I have a wide roll bought from India that is perfectly fine. I bought 2 rolls of 70mm and put one in the freezer. The other, I just put in the cabinet in my darkroom. That one has the same kind of spotting that is seen in post one. I've tried different developers to see if that can make a difference. have pretty much no impact. It's essentially garbage.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

These are photographic products that the Indian military allegedly procured many years ago for its use. At some point, the original buyer stopped using the products and the already procured but unused stuff was sent to a godown. In the recent past, someone got hold of this stuff and started selling it in bulk to resellers like vintage.hut who now sell the inidividual rolls in India to local customers and on eBay to global customers. The resellers have kept the rolls in good condition, I am told, but nobody knows how the rolls were stored in the godown or after they were flushed out of the godown. It's unlikely that adequate care was taken as that these were essentially trash from the point of view of the original buyer. The rolls have been a mixed bag in my experience. I bought some Aviphot and Plus X rolls and so far I haven't had bad experiences with them. However, the one Avitone roll I bought was completely unusable. The reseller graciously replaced it with another roll which too was unusable. OTOH grade 3 RC paper from the same source is excellent and shows no base fog despite the age. Several others have used this paper and have had positive experience with it.

Thanks for the info Raghu.

So far, I already went thru one 70mm x 90 mts roll and a smaller one (I think it was 40mts) with no issues at all. Really liked what I got. Also, have been using a 24mm roll to cut to 4x5 and excellent quality.

I guess I got a lemon on the current roll. Like Raghu said, probably this one roll was badly stored and got damaged, probably by humidity.

Will recover the backing paper and try the next roll.

Thanks by the great info everyone



By the way, this is yesterday test:

Close up

 

[joho]

I'm getting issues with my recently developed roll of film (Aviphot) and getting some weird dots/granularity. I thought it was some kind of reticulation since there was a temperature difference between the developer and stop bath (water) or even with the fixed.

Yesterday I put all 3 liquids (developer, water for stop bath and fixer) at the same temperature and still get the same issue.


View attachment 399620

Detail:
View attachment 399621

It is more evident on clear/white areas




My last guess is either the film itself or the fixed. Dumping the fixer today an preparing new one and make a new test. I discard it as a fixer issue since I also developed some 4x5 and it was ok.

Film stock is Aviphot by the way. I had developed some rolls from the same 70mm roll without issues so not sure it is the film stock.

Any idea what this is about?

it is the backing paper. Had the same problem on a certain fomapan 120RF. Not all refrigerators are dry- if stored in one.
to see try under development ??

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I have a wide roll bought from India that is perfectly fine. I bought 2 rolls of 70mm and put one in the freezer. The other, I just put in the cabinet in my darkroom. That one has the same kind of spotting that is seen in post one. I've tried different developers to see if that can make a difference. have pretty much no impact. It's essentially garbage.

I'm afraid this is the same issue. Testing the unopened 70mm I have. I bought several rolls from the same guy on India and didnt had any problems before. Hopefully this unopened one is fine.