Developing unknown film found in a Leica cassette

Romanko · Sep 3, 2021

I have a Leica cassette with unknown film in it. The leader is sticking out and cut the way you would normally do to load a Leica. There is a small chance that the film was exposed and wound back. I would like to develop it. I obviously don't know what type of film it is, not even if it is black-and-white, colour slide or colour negative.

How would you go about developing it? I am thinking about doing a strip test in BW chemistry first. It should tell me if it was exposed or not.

Some background: I got this film from a collector in South Australia. The film is at least 40 years old. I am aware of processing labs that specialise in developing "found" film but want to develop it myself. I am not new to darkroom and I've been doing my own processing (on and off) for about 30 years now.

Any ideas are welcome.

Nitroplait · Sep 3, 2021

If you by "Leica cassette" mean a FILCA or IXMOO, then it is home rolled and therefore almost certainly B&W film.

Romanko · Sep 3, 2021

I am not a Leica user or collector so can't tell if it is FILCA or IXMOO type. I have another similar looking cassette that has "Ernst Leitz Wetzlar - Germany" stamped on it but that one doesn't have any markings. It is very likely that the film is home rolled and B&W. I also know that film manufacturers like Agfa sold their film in both Leica and Contax cassettes and it might as well be one of those films.

Nitroplait · Sep 3, 2021

Romanko said:
I also know that film manufacturers like Agfa sold their film in both Leica and Contax cassettes and it might as well be one of those films.

Not 40 or even 50 years ago.
I am assuming we are talking about the heavy brass cassettes - not single use?

Romanko · Sep 3, 2021

Here is a picture.

Nitroplait · Sep 3, 2021

Romanko said:
Here is a picture.View attachment 284221

OK. I am almost sure it is a FILCA - only useable in the Barnack Leicas. They are easier to identify from the other end - if it say Ernst Leitz Wetzlar is a FILCA if it says Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzlar it is a IXMOO.
If you happen to have one of each next to each other, the slightly shorter one is a IXMOO.
The IXMOO cassettes are useable in both Barnack's and M's up until early M6 models in the second half of the 1980's.

The very bright silver center spool does not look original, Those I own are all black.

I doubt that these were ever sold pre-loaded, the cartridge itself was rather expensive and Kodak had introduced the single use cassette already in 1934, which would also fit into Leica and Contax cameras.
I have heard that you at some point could buy precut filmstrips which you could roll onto the FILCA-IXMOO in your darkroom, but I have never seen anything like that during the 50+ years I have been interested in photography, therefore my guess would be that it is black and white rolled at home.
To be certain, you can drop a little piece of the film-end into fixer; it should clear up and the color of the film-base should tell you if it is color (magenta), slide film(clear) or B&W (greyish).

For development of long expired films, I have only experience with HC110 which is said to be a good choice for film with expectations of a lot of base-fog.
I have only developed film of known types - I have never been so lucky to find a FILCA cassette forgotten in a camera - thus I just took a known HC110 formular for the given film and added 25% time - that has always given me printable results - if the film was exposed, that is

Nicholas Lindan · Sep 3, 2021

Ditto Nitroplait - I'd say 7 minutes in HC110 dilution B with normal agitation and see what happens. It doesn't have to be HC110 - AOD will work, add a minute or two to the time for the old/original Tri-X; odds-on it's Tri-X or the Ilford equivalent.

removed account4 · Sep 3, 2021

Hi Romanko
If you can find some DEKTOL or make some D72 process your film 1:5 for 6 minutes 68F agitate normally as you would for any roll film in developer. This ( and ansco 130 but I know you are in Australia and might have a hard time locating Glycin ) are my go to developers for any kind of film, .. that and caffenol C .. but I am guessing you don't want to dilly-dally. ... of course, if you want to dilly-dally, mix up a strong batch of caffenol C using the teaspoon method and add about 20cc of D72 ( &c stock ) into your caffenol c ... then take the remainder of your D72 and dilute it 1:9. Develop the film in the 1:9 for 5 mins, agitate normally ( 1full min and 10sec/min ) ... at 5 mins pour it out and put in your spiked caffneol c and agitate continuously for 5 minutes. I have used that split processing regimen for every film I use ( color ( cn+e6 ) + black and white ) for the past 6ish years, haven't been disappointed with how any of it turned out.
good luck ! and have fun
John

Nitroplait · Sep 3, 2021

I created a thread to help identify IXMOO and FILCA's. Should you have any knowledge about when or how they were sold, please add it to that thread. It could be interesting to know if they were sold pre-loaded for example.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/leica-filca-and-ixmoo.186364/

Down Under · Sep 3, 2021

jnantz said:
Hi Romanko
If you can find some DEKTOL or make some D72 process your film 1:5 for 6 minutes 68F agitate normally as you would for any roll film in developer. This ( and ansco 130 but I know you are in Australia and might have a hard time locating Glycin ) are my go to developers for any kind of film, .. that and caffenol C .. but I am guessing you don't want to dilly-dally. ... of course, if you want to dilly-dally, mix up a strong batch of caffenol C using the teaspoon method and add about 20cc of D72 ( &c stock ) into your caffenol c ... then take the remainder of your D72 and dilute it 1:9. Develop the film in the 1:9 for 5 mins, agitate normally ( 1full min and 10sec/min ) ... at 5 mins pour it out and put in your spiked caffneol c and agitate continuously for 5 minutes. I have used that split processing regimen for every film I use ( color ( cn+e6 ) + black and white ) for the past 6ish years, haven't been disappointed with how any of it turned out.
good luck ! and have fun John

Good suggestions here. HC110 is no longer available in Australia - if you have any, sell it on Ebay and make a small fortune!! Dektol can be purchased from Vanbar Photographics in Fitzroy (Melbourne), also glycin but for the latter you'll need deep pockets.

Dektol/D72 is most likely the best way to go, but then I home brew my own so I can play with 'variables' to get the results I want.

As an interesting aside, I use Dektol and mix my own D72 - and find the results from each/either are slightly different, even when mixed by the book. My preference goes slightly to D72. Am unsure why. Maybe John
(jnantz) has some thoughts on this??

In the '60s when I was a jockey-journalist we often processed our films in Dektol, three minutes 1-1 @68F/20C. Results were good enough to scan for newspaper publication. Those older films were often more resilient (maybe due to higher silver content) than many of today's pussy cat emulsions which I've found don't always cope well with processing in print developers.

I've never mixed or used Caffenol C but the ingredients are readily available (Vanbar again, plus the cheapest instant coffee you can find in the stupormarkets, so International Roast or any generic brands) and there is a detailed manual available to be downloaded on the web, but be warned, as a read it's a steep learning curve.

Best of luck, and please let us know the results.

Romanko · Sep 4, 2021

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. My first post here and so many great replies!

ozmoose said:
HC110 is no longer available in Australia - if you have any, sell it on Ebay and make a small fortune!!

I bought mine from Vanbar last week, with a 5% discount. It is still available if you want to stock up. Also, thanks for the tips on Dektol / D72 / Caffenol C.

I had three Leica cassettes with film and did some strip-tests (in HC-110 dilution B at 18 degrees Celsius for 6-7 minutes) today. Here are the results:

One contained BW film which was exposed to light and came out completely black (I developed the rest of the film, just in case).
The second could be either slide or BW as the base is clear with a bit of bluish tint. I developed about 10 cm of that film that was inside the cassette and it appears to be unexposed.
The third film is still a bit of a mystery. The strip that I developed was too short and came out completely black . I discovered "Ansco 30 T." written in pencil on the leader.

I could not find any information on "Ansco 30 T" film in old Ansco/Agfa catalogues. The closest would be Ansco Anscochrome (slide) film in which case 30 would be its ASA speed and T would probably mean "Tungsten".

Nitroplait said:
I created a thread to help identify IXMOO and FILCA's. Should you have any knowledge about when or how they were sold, please add it to that thread. It could be interesting to know if they were sold pre-loaded for example.

Thanks Nitroplait, that information would be helpful for people like me. It is the first time I have to deal with Leica cassettes. I spent about an hour researching how to even open the damn thing. I'll share what I learned so far in your new thread.

I will do the "fixer test" with more strips cut from films (2) and (3). I am fairly confident by now that these films are unexposed and that explains why they were still in the cassettes. I read somewhere that early Leica cassettes were prone to suddenly opening when being removed from the camera and this is probably what happened to the first film. I any case, looks like we are not getting any images this time.

Should I shoot and develop the remaining unexposed film? I don't have a Leica but I can reload the film into "normal" cassettes, rate it at EI 12-25 and bracket.

removed account4 · Sep 4, 2021

Hi ozmoose
No idea why your 2 developers act a little different ? Maybe fresher chemistry when you make it from scratch? I didn’t know there was a steep learning curve from caffenol always seemed easier than any developer I used… as long as you use the right chemicals.. the problem I have found is people add salt and who know what else to it, and use baking soda and fruit fresh instead of washing soda and vitamin c and have trouble.. plain vanilla with teaspoons and a splash of d72 alway does what I want. Lol. I’ll let the caffenol kings break out the scales and salt…. I never saw a need…

BAC1967 · Sep 4, 2021

I found some film in a FILCA a while back, I semi stand developed it in Rodinal 1:100. It turned out to be Kodak Super-XX and was shot in a half frame camera. I assume it had to have been shot in a Leica 72 18X24 camera, I don’t think that FILCA fits in any other half frame cameras. The film was probably shot around 1948 based on the subject matter.

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user...aken-desc&view_all=1&text=FILCA found film 72

Down Under · Sep 5, 2021

Romanko said:
I bought mine (HC110) from Vanbar last week, with a 5% discount. It is still available if you want to stock up.

Gosh, this is wonderful news!! It also shows how out-of-date some of my knowledge of what is available in processing chemistry in AUS is - I'll definitely spend a bit of time surfing thru the Vanbar web site in the coming days AND I will be putting in an order for two bottles of that outstandingly excellent brew. It keeps well, so that should last me to the end of my processing days.

Still hoping you will post the results after processing your old, old film. Either images (which would be great) or details of what you did and what results you had. Good luck...

MattKing · Sep 5, 2021

ozmoose said:
HC110 is no longer available in Australia

Romanko said:
I bought mine from Vanbar last week, with a 5% discount. It is still available if you want to stock up.

Can you check something to satisfy my curiosity?
Is it the version that says made in Germany, or is it the version that says made in the USA?
If the former, it should last a very long time, but apparently won't be producible for very much longer, due to a phase out of one of its chemical constituents.
If the latter, it should perform in the same manner as the older stuff, but probably won't have the extraordinary long life when partially used.
The new stuff should have no problems with future availability, and it does apparently pour much more easily.
Here is a picture of the last version of the bottle for the Made in Germany version, which apparently can still be found in the UK and Europe:

And here is a picture of the new, Made in the USA bottle:

I don't know that I have seen anything reliable about whether the new version has fog minimizing properties that are similar to the older version.

Romanko · Sep 6, 2021

It looks more like the one made in Germany but the label is different. It is not easy to pour. Pouring it out of 10 ml graduated cylinder is a bit of a task.

Romanko · Sep 6, 2021

After this quick digression into developers let's get back to the main subject of our discussion. I did the "fixer test" (dipping the test strips in Ilford Rapid fixer 1+4 for about 5 min at 18 °C) and the film base for the two remaining films looks like that:

Sample #2 is the film with "Ansco 30 T." written in pencil on the leader. Sample #3 is the other film found in a FILCA cassette with a sticker which has "50" written in pen (ASA speed?). Ignore the darker areas on the sample, it touched the column in the tank and was not "fixed" properly. For comparison, there's also a piece of Kodak TMAX-100 from 1980's developed in HC-110. Sample #3 seems to be BW but I am not sure about #2. It looks darker and somewhat warmer.

The plan is to reload the rest of the two films into 35 mm cassettes and shoot them rating at EI 25-12 if not lower. Then develop #2 in C41 (if I ever get a kit given I am in lockdown in Down Under) and #3 in HC-110. What do you think?

Developing unknown film found in a Leica cassette

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