Developing Times/Technique for Tri-X and D-76

Obtong · May 21, 2010

Hello,

I recently returned to the darkroom after an absence of almost 20 years. I am enjoying myself immensely and getting some pretty good results. However, I am noticing that I am having to work harder at getting "straight prints" from my Tri-X (35mm) and D-76 combination. Most of my negatives are somewhat flat, and I find myself often printing with MG Filter grades of 3 or 4. My negatives from the early to mid 80's look great, and I was able to print most of them easily. I understand that Tri-X has changed, but I don't really know if my results now are typical for the new version of the film.

Here's my technique for developing Tri-X (35mm 400 ISO) with D-76:
D-76, 1-1, at 68F
9 3/4 mins, two inversions of (Paterson) tank every 30 secs
Stop Bath, 30 secs
Fix, 5-10 mins
Wash

What would be the best part of my technique to change first to get "normal" negatives, or are my results typical for the new version of Tri-X?

Thanks,
~Dom

Thomas Bertilsson · May 21, 2010

The easiest way to build more contrast in your negatives is to develop them longer. Add time to your 9.75 minutes until you're happy with how they print.

- Thomas

BetterSense · May 21, 2010

Your development sounds ok, but who can account for differences between darkrooms. I think when I shot tri-X in D76 1+1, I used 9 min at 20C. In medium format, I develop it in HC110 1+50 for 8 minutes or D23 straight for 8 minutes. I usually print with grade 2. Grade 3 if the light was really flat.

hspluta · May 21, 2010

As Thomas says extend your development time, but be aware that the more you extend it the more grain becomes pronounced. Now for my taste I actually like the way the grain in Tri-X looks.

Just remember that it is your exposure that controls the density of the shadows ( how dark the darkest part of the print gets ) and your development that controls the density of the highlights ( how light the highlights get ). Work with that until you get negatives that have the range you are looking for.

Myself I am playing with "stand" development using HC-110. I like the combo as the liquid is easy to mix just what I need for the current development load, and "stand" development seems to be getting me more acutance in the transition areas. I am using a very diluted mix of developer which gives me a longer development time which in turn allows me to have a more consistent process control.

-Harry

Thomas Bertilsson · May 21, 2010

hspluta said:
As Thomas says extend your development time, but be aware that the more you extend it the more grain becomes pronounced. Now for my taste I actually like the way the grain in Tri-X looks.

Actually, I respectfully disagree with the grain idea. By extending development you will arrive at a full contrast negative, and in my experience those are the negatives that make prints with the least noticeable grain. Why? Because you can print with normal contrast filtration.
Reason: If you produce a negative that is slightly under-developed (which is the case here), you have to print with a harder grade filtration - which emphasizes the grain in the print.

The only time I notice excessive grain is when the film is either overexposed without having being compensated for in processing (very dense negs), or when the film has been over-developed beyond a normal contrast range (regardless of how it was exposed).

fschifano · May 21, 2010

I get perfectly good negatives from Tri-X in D-76 1+1 when I go "by the book", in this case Kodak's recommendations. Agitation is fairly vigorous for 5 seconds every thirty seconds. Very low contrast negatives are not typical for the new or old formulation of Tri-X.

Temperature control is often the overlooked culprit here. A worker will take pains to insure that the developer is at the right temperature, only to pour it into a cold tank. Well, guess what happens. Your nicely tempered developer is no longer nicely tempered and may very well have lost at least a degree or two. As we all should know, cooler temperatures slow down development and under development leads to lower contrast negatives.

In my own darkroom, I take pains to temper the tank along with the chemistry to minimize the temperature change. Everything goes into a water bath and sits there for a while until it's all stable. The tank is returned to the water bath between agitation cycles. Even then, the developer will loose about 1/2 degree F during the pour. How do I know this? I measured it using the same thermometer each time, and my conclusions are based on not one but many, many observations. I've also calibrated my thermometer against a known good standard.

So there you have it. The problem is likely that your temperature control isn't as controlled as you might think.

Obtong · May 21, 2010

Hi. I've re-read some of my Kodak data sheets as well as the replies on this thread. I do use a waterbath to keep the temperature of the developer constant, but my agitation is by no means "vigorous". At present I invert my developing tank just twice every 30 seconds, and the inversions are not vigorous. So, for the next roll I will try inverting/agitating vigorously for 5 seconds every 30 seconds. If that doesn't do the trick I will look at either extending development time or shooting my Tri-X at EI200.

~Dom

BetterSense · May 21, 2010

I forgot to specify in my post, that I do 3 quick inversions per minute. I always shoot tri-x at 200 ish unless it's gloomy out.

John Shriver · May 23, 2010

First, is your thermometer accurate? (Note: that is a hard question to answer! I calibrate my Weston Miroband against a Kodak Process Thermometer periodically.)

Second, did you use 8 ounces of developer and 8 ounces of water to process one roll of film? If you only used 4 and 4, add 10% to the developing time -- that's on the D-76 data sheet. Plus, Kodak calls for 10 minutes, not 9-3/4 minutes. So 4 and 4 would be 11 minutes.

Third, two inversions might be a bit "dainty" in the agitation area.

Rick A · May 23, 2010

Normal agitation, is constant agitation for the first 30 seconds, followed by 5 inversions every 30 seconds, or 10 inversions on the minute. An inversion is upending the tank 180 degrees and then back right-side-up. St. Ansel recommended adding a twisting motion at the same time. Either way, you will get good agitation.
Be very aware of your temperture, I pre-soak film for two minutes with water at proper temp to get the tank and film up to temp, and it rinses the anti-halation layer away prior to development. Try to keep all chems at same temp to avoid reticulation. Some films are more prone to it than others, better safe than sorry.

pgomena · May 23, 2010

D-76 1:1, 8 minutes 68F, Tri-X at 200 or 250 EI. Constant gentle agitation first 30 seconds, two inversions on the 30 second mark thereafter. Same for HC-110 dilution B, only 5 minutes total time and gentle agitation.

Peter Gomena

Scott Murphy · Sep 6, 2020

I am going to part with all of you on this one. I use it with Ansel Adams' Zone System and get fantastic results. I shoot TX at ASA 200 for 8 1/2 minutes @ 68º F. This is my Normal (N) development time. My N+1 time is 12 min and my N-1 time 6 minutes, both at 68º F. The grain is tighter and the acutance higher, even in the pushed or pulled times.

Dali · Sep 6, 2020

Good for you.

Scott Murphy · Sep 6, 2020

Dali said:
Good for you.

If you were bring sarcastic, take a break, you don't have to be a dick every day of your life. If not, I apologize for the comment.

Arvee · Sep 6, 2020

Scott Murphy said:
If you were bring sarcastic, take a break, you don't have to be a dick every day of your life. If not, I apologize for the comment.

You realize you have responded to a 10 year old thread.....

Scott Murphy · Sep 6, 2020

Arvee said:
You realize you have responded to a 10 year old thread.....

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that threads had an expiration date. Not much to do today?

MattKing · Sep 6, 2020

Scott Murphy said:
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that threads had an expiration date. Not much to do today?

They don't usually expire, but sometimes they get really, really quiet!
I expect you didn't notice that there had been no activity in this thread in more than ten years - your post gave the impression that you thought that you were participating in an ongoing discussion.
Some of the participants are still active, while others are not.
I thought Dali's post was cheeky, but funny. I doubt he/she intended offense.

Developing Times/Technique for Tri-X and D-76

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