Developing time??

ndwgolf · Jun 5, 2017

Just trying to get my head around this. When I shot the film I underexposed my metered shadows by 2 stops to get the shadows in zone 3........How do I recover my highlights in the developing of the neg.....do I add developing time or remove time........my feeling is to remove time to make the highlights whiter.....is that correct??

Neil

Leigh B · Jun 5, 2017

Use normal development.

Meters try to make whatever they see as a mid-tone. They expect to look at average scenes.

If they look at shadows, those should be 2 stop below average, which is where you put them.

So the overall exposure should be correct if you had a normal scene.

You can reduce development if you want to reduce the highlight density.

- Leigh

ndwgolf · Jun 5, 2017

Leigh B said:
Use normal development.

Meters try to make whatever they see as a mid-tone. They expect to look at average scenes.

If they look at shadows, those should be 2 stop below average, which is where you put them.

So the overall exposure should be normal if you had a normal scene.

You can reduce development if you want to bring the highlights down.

- Leigh

So my first negative I developed it at 5 1/2 minutes, and its +/- 2 stops under exposed, I took a backup shot with exactly the same setting, if I want to try and recover this negative should I develop it at maybe 7 minutes to make it brighter??

Leigh B · Jun 5, 2017

I have no idea what film or developer fyou're using, so the times are meaningless.

How are you determining "2 stops under exposed"?
That would result in no shadow detail at all.

Exposure only affects the shadows, the thinnest areas in the negative.
The higher densities are controlled entirely by development, as I mentioned previously.

Here's an example graph showing different development times.
Shadows are to the left, highlights to the right. Density increases vertically.
Each line is a different development time.
Note how they're all the same at the left end, in the shadow densities.

- Leigh

ndwgolf · Jun 5, 2017

I am using Ilford multigrain RC paper (pearl) and D76 developer ...box says 6 minutes.
I scanned the negative and when I imported it into lightroom, it showed it was 2 stops under exposed.

Neil

bdial · Jun 5, 2017

Are you exposing paper in the camera or film?

Also, in regard to your question, adding developing time will tend to make the highlights denser, which would result in brighter white areas in a print.

Leigh B · Jun 5, 2017

ndwgolf said:
I am using Ilford multigrain RC paper (pearl) and D76 developer ...box says 6 minutes.
I scanned the negative and when I imported it into lightroom, it showed it was 2 stops under exposed.

Paper is not film.

In your first post you said you were shooting film.

- Leigh

ndwgolf · Jun 5, 2017

Leigh B said:
Paper is not film.

In your first post you said you were shooting film.

- Leigh

Yes I am shooting film TRIX320 film and using Ilford multigrrad paper for the contact print
Neil

Rick A · Jun 5, 2017

Are you exposing the paper enough and using the contrast grade filter of choice? Developing paper is straight forward and constant. Exposure time and contrast are the variables when printing.

Doc W · Jun 5, 2017

ndwgolf said:
Just trying to get my head around this. When I shot the film I underexposed my metered shadows by 2 stops to get the shadows in zone 3........How do I recover my highlights in the developing of the neg.....do I add developing time or remove time........my feeling is to remove time to make the highlights whiter.....is that correct??
Neil

If you are using this method of exposure and development, you need to measure both the textured shadows and the textured highlights. If they cover five zones (III to VII), then you can place the textured shadow on Zone III and develop normally. If the scene is only four stops and you place the textured shadow on Zone III, then you should probably increase development to bump up the highlights. Do the reverse if you meter a six stop difference (i.e., less development to take the highlights down a little).

This assumes that you have done some testing. If not, then increase/decrease development by only about 15-20%.

removed account4 · Jun 5, 2017

experimenting with 8x10 film like this is kind of expensive !
rather than process your film and waste time and money
and get final results you might not like ...
why not expose 120 or 35mm film under and over exposed
over and under processed so you see what your results are.
i'd make suggestions about your 8x10 film
but i have no idea what you process is like, if your shutter was
calibrated so 1 / 8 S was really 1 /8 S and not slower or faster ...
there are a lot of other factors other than saying 2 stops under exposed
and looking at a log-chart ...

usually if you underexpose film and develop normally, the film is a little thin ( less light hitting film )
over exposed, it is denser
processed less, less contrast
processed more , more contrast
but it all depends on agitation schemes, and camera calibrations not just what random people
like me on the internet might suggest !

sorry i can't be much help !
good luck
john

Zelph · Nov 11, 2017

Can you tell the difference in underdevelopment and underexposure?
If not - you better learn. Horenstein's book Black and White Photography, a basic manual is one to have in your library.

You have to tweak development time with your film/developer combination to get what you want. A few sheets of film is all it takes to get going.

Sirius Glass · Nov 11, 2017

Use normal development. Negative film has a wide latitude of exposure.

silveror0 · Nov 11, 2017

OP - I think you'd be best advised to begin your 8x10 photography by following the exposure and processing recommendations of the film manufacturer before trying to implement the zone system without studying it. It's really geared to use of a spot meter, rather than an averaging meter. Get a copy of AA's The Negative and have a look at his step-by-step instructions for testing sheet film to determine your effective film speed and developing times for Normal contrast, as well as contrast adjustment. Those tests can be done quickly using 4x5 film, and the results will apply to 8x10 as well. Nothing wasted, and you can then venture forward with confidence and knowledge.of your chosen materials.

ndwgolf · Nov 12, 2017

Hi I'm back
So this is what I do. When I am using my Chamonix 8x10 if I am taking a picture of a landscape for instance I look at the scene in front of me and find the brightest spot (usually the sky) and meter that. I then look for the darkest spot (something in deep shadow) and meter that. I then get another 4 meter readings of various areas in the scene and meter those as well. After I have all those meter readings I use the average function on my Sekonic 758 DR and take that as my settings for the picture....................
When I am shooting a person, a flower or anything near to me I just use the meter in incident mode and go with that setting.................Looking at my results I am defiantly getting better and yet to have any complete disasters except for a few light leeks that were operator error

Here is one of each both shot with 8x10 and Ilford HP5+ developed in LC29 developing speed reduced by 15% due to constant agitation in drums;

pentaxuser · Nov 12, 2017

These negatives do not look like a disaster. So is the negative you say you need to try and recover in post 3 not one of these? If it is not one of these two negatives then show us it to demonstrate what is wrong or are you saying that you have now solved your problem and the thread can be effectively closed i.e. you do not need any more help?

I am confused

pentaxuser

ndwgolf · Nov 12, 2017

pentaxuser said:
or are you saying that you have now solved your problem and the thread can be effectively closed i.e. you do not need any more help?

I am confused

pentaxuser

Ive got the hang of it now and for now managing on my own thanks

Neil

Sirius Glass · Nov 12, 2017

ndwgolf said:
Hi I'm back
So this is what I do. When I am using my Chamonix 8x10 if I am taking a picture of a landscape for instance I look at the scene in front of me and find the brightest spot (usually the sky) and meter that. I then look for the darkest spot (something in deep shadow) and meter that. I then get another 4 meter readings of various areas in the scene and meter those as well. After I have all those meter readings I use the average function on my Sekonic 758 DR and take that as my settings for the picture....................
When I am shooting a person, a flower or anything near to me I just use the meter in incident mode and go with that setting.................Looking at my results I am defiantly getting better and yet to have any complete disasters except for a few light leeks that were operator error
Here is one of each both shot with 8x10 and Ilford HP5+ developed in LC29 developing speed reduced by 15% due to constant agitation in drums;
View attachment 189956 View attachment 189964

Do not meter the sky, that skews the exposure. Meter the brightest part of the subject, not the sky and then the darkest part of the subject. The sky will "fall" in place.

ndwgolf · Nov 12, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Do not meter the sky, that skews the exposure. Meter the brightest part of the subject, not the sky and then the darkest part of the subject. The sky will "fall" in place.

Even if everything else in the scene is dark??

Neil

MattKing · Nov 12, 2017

You meter the sky if you care about how the sky appears in the photo.
If the subject isn't the sky, and you don't really care about whether the sky is bright, dark or in the middle, don't meter the sky.

Sirius Glass · Nov 13, 2017

ndwgolf said:
Even if everything else in the scene is dark??

Neil

That is when it is most important not to meter the sky.

Zelph · Jan 28, 2018

ndwgolf said:
So my first negative I developed it at 5 1/2 minutes, and its +/- 2 stops under exposed, I took a backup shot with exactly the same setting, if I want to try and recover this negative should I develop it at maybe 7 minutes to make it brighter??

Are you able to tell the difference in underexposed and underdeveloped negatives? Or overexposed compared to overdeveloped?
If not you are wasting time, effort and materials.

Get Hornstein's Basic and Advanced Darkroom books. They will help you a lot.

Developing time??

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