Developing problem

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

Hi all,
First time developing using a changing bag, so I thought I'd test with a roll of 120 before developing 'important' stuff. Phew that I did, rather the errors came up now!

Fomapan 100, T-Max Dev, Ilford Rapid Fixer, Fotospeed Rinse Aid

Is the black part due to uneven development, too much agitation (agitated 3-4 times every 30 seconds), not fixed for long enough or possibly a light leak in the (new!) changing bag? It's towards the end of the roll (12 exposures), there are no edge markings. Apologies that I can't get a clearer picture at this stage, I only developed it in the last hour so it's still hung to dry.

Any opinions and expertise appreciated - I've searched and looked at common problems, but every single problem seems to appear slightly differently...

(bigger version here)

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2011

looks like a camera back opening issue rather than a processing issue.

Ian Grant · Jun 28, 2011

You've got fogging, a light leak somewhere. It's happened either in the camera, when loading or maybe a crack in the tank.

It's not the processing itself.

Ian

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

I can rule out the camera - I've run rolls through it before, with no problem at all. Interestingly, when I shine a bright light through it the image is still there and present?

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2011

just because you used the camera with no problem before does not rule out this fog being due to the camera.

but for interests sake , what kind of tank are you using and how do the rolls sit in the tank, It could be a light leak in through the lid but this does not look like it.
The end or the beginning of the roll is in question and not the other end, which seems to be fog free, exposure during the process would have all the edges fogged and not selectively like you see here.
Possibly a loading or unloading issue on the camera or a hole in the light bag.

freecom2 said:
I can rule out the camera - I've run rolls through it before, with no problem at all. Interestingly, when I shine a bright light through it the image is still there and present?

Ian Grant · Jun 28, 2011

My experience Michael is that 120 films are no worse or better than 35mm films when it comes to processing with one exception air bubbles at the top edge can be more of an issue with developers made up from raw chemistry.

You see more problems with streaking etc from poor agitation particularly over agitation with 35mm films. So on balance they are much the same as long as you take care there's no problems with either.

Ian

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

Bob Carnie said:
just because you used the camera with no problem before does not rule out this fog being due to the camera.

but for interests sake , what kind of tank are you using and how do the rolls sit in the tank, It could be a light leak in through the lid but this does not look like it.
The end or the beginning of the roll is in question and not the other end, which seems to be fog free, exposure during the process would have all the edges fogged and not selectively like you see here.
Possibly a loading or unloading issue on the camera or a hole in the light bag.

Very true Bob - not saying it's not a possibility. Super System 4 - universal size - and just the one reel at 120 size.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 28, 2011

Light leak. Like Bob I think it's the changing bag.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

It looks like the film was fogged by the back of the camera being opened, during film handling before it was processed, or a crack in the tank.

Problems in 120 as about as common as in 35mm. But 35mm gets so more problems vis-a-vis the sprocket holes.

Steve

Bob Carnie · Jun 28, 2011

I have seen (myself) opening the back of a few of the cameras I use and the resulting film looks exactly like what you are showing with the jpeg.
I have seen light leak through the lid during development and the effect is more of a streaking pattern, and if you are using one reel then all of the film should be affected.
A loose roll can sometimes pick up fog, and if a light leak in the a changing bag as well.

I am not understanding what you mean by developing in a changing bag.

anyways the film looks great other than the bottom/Top frames which looks like some of the film I have messed up in the past.

freecom2 said:
Very true Bob - not saying it's not a possibility. Super System 4 - universal size - and just the one reel at 120 size.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

Bob Carnie said:
I have seen (myself) opening the back of a few of the cameras I use and the resulting film looks exactly like what you are showing with the jpeg.

We have all done that at some time.

Bob Carnie said:
I am not understanding what you mean by developing in a changing bag.

I believe that he means that he loaded the tank in a changing bag, another place where the film could have gotten fogged.

I suggest that the OP shoot a test roll and process the film. Then we will know whether or not the problem is repeatable or one time error.

Steve

MattKing · Jun 28, 2011

When loaded on the reel was the fogged area of the film closer to the centre core or closer to the outer rim?

To me this looks like light fog, not a processing problem.

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

It seems almost certainly like the conclusion is that it wasn't a processing problem; I just didn't really have a better title in mind, heh.

MattKing - I couldn't tell you, to be honest with you.
Steve - I am going to pick up another few rolls of Fomapan 100 and shoot another test to see what happens. A test roll to test my test roll - and to top it off, these were meant to be a test roll for a few rolls of Acros, which themselves were originally meant to be... test rolls. For a few rolls of T-Max 400. Yup, I think I lost you at some point in that sentence

For the test, is it okay to re-use the dev+fixer? I know fixer is meant to be reusable a lot, and even Kodak says that the dev can be used up to 12 times. I'll probably only use fresh chems if the second test seems to still throw up an error.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

Michael R 1974 said:
Ian, on a related note, would you say in your experience that with roll film, medium format is most difficult to process evenly? I only do large format and 35mm so never even tried medium format, but based on all the threads I've read about developing problems it seems like uneven development, streaking, etc etc comes up most with medium format. Just curious.

I suspect that more people tend to post about it with medium format development problems.

I use and develop 135, 120 and 4"x5" black & white and color film. My biggest reoccuring problem has been loading the roll film reels and even that problem has diminished with experience.

Large format has the wonderful advantage that even before processing there are always new and exciting ways to screw up the film.

Pulling the dark slide while the lens is open.
Pulling the dark slide and then moving the focal plane shutter to a narrower slot. [Diagonal fog streak]
Film falling out of the film holder after inserting the holder into the camera.
Taking a photograph with the focal plane shutter when the front shutter is closed.
Taking a photograph with the front shutter when the focal plane shutter is closed.
Not putting the film holder properly so the film gets fogged by a light leak.
Forgetting to stop down the lens before taking the photograph.
Forgetting to adjust the ISO on the light meter because the waterfall would look better with a slower film exposed for 1/2 second.
Forgeting to lock the focus [and, if applicable, the tripod] when inserting the film holder.
...

How about we forgo asking me how I know about these things?

Steve

PVia · Jun 28, 2011

Don't reuse developer...

Whenever troubleshooting in the darkroom, don't introduce new variables. And make sure that all your chemicals are fresh and of known origin. IOW, don't use a bottle of fixer you bought on craigslist which may have been sitting around in a hot garage for 10 years.

In order to troubleshoot anything effectively, only one variable should be changed at a time and methodically tracked down.

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

I've just realised something - the part of the film that is fogged were pictures that were taken in really really bright sunlight. It is possible that a light leak just hasn't managed to appear until now?

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

freecom2 said:
I've just realised something - the part of the film that is fogged were pictures that were taken in really really bright sunlight. It is possible that a light leak just hasn't managed to appear until now?

Stop the presses! We may have a winning solution here!

All siriusness aside, this sound entirely plausable. What kind of camera? Are the light seals in good condition?

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

Sirius Glass said:
All siriusness aside, this sound entirely plausable. What kind of camera? Are the light seals in good condition?

I see what you did there!

It's a Yashica Mat, the original one. There seems to be a lot on the internet about light seals on the 124G, but nothing on the original Mat, and I've had a look and I can't find any on the actual camera body.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

From an older thread.

resummerfield said:
Jon Goodman sells a great kit! Another email address is "Jon_Goodman@yahoo.com"

I am going to order some soon for an old compact Sear 35mm camera.

Steve

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

I've just had a look and around the door there is an almost string like material that lines it. Looks a bit gummy. I've used John Goodman's kits before, was just thinking of sending him an email asking if his 'Pre-Cut Light Seal Kit Yashica Mat 124g, D, Interslice!' would be suitable for the Mat before you suggested it, aha.

EDIT: had another look, the seals don't look that bad...

jeffreyg · Jun 28, 2011

To add to the list of new ways to screw up large format -- not having film in the film holders when you "took" the best photograph you had ever taken.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2011

Putting the dark slide in showing unexposed after taking a photograph. First stage of a double exposure.

freecom2 · Jun 28, 2011

Here is a quick scan, to me it looks pretty much like a classic case of fogging?

wblynch · Jun 28, 2011

To me it looks like the roll was taken from the camera in bright light and not tightly wound. Light leaked past the paper edges.

vpwphoto · Jun 28, 2011

My 2cents is the camera also... it's too even to be the bag, or a tank leak.

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