Developing problem I only get with Xtol

I use a number of developers (aculux2, rodinal, pyrocat) with no great problems but every time I use xtol I get marks and spots all over my negatives. I attach two pictures that illustrate the problem (film Neopan 400 rated EI 400 in 35mm).

My method with xtol is to use it 1+1 in distilled water. I agitate 30 secs at start and then once every 30 secs at 20 degrees C. Water stop and then fix. I use a small tank (paterson).

If anyone has any thoughts or advice on what is happening here I would be most grateful. Given that I do not have these problems with my other developers seems strange to me.

I seem to have 2 sorts of marks - dark spots and then marks with a faint white line around them.

Thanks!

I should add I have the exact same problem regardless of which film I develop in Xtol and so far I have tried delta 100, neopan 400 and neopan 1600

I develop Delta 100 almost exclusively in XTOL and never had that problem.
XTOL does need a lot of mixing to get all the powder disolved and I use water heated to 85F. The only thing I can think of is some undisolved particles are sticking to the emulsion or there was contamination of the powder at the factory.

EVen after a long mix, I still find a few particles clumped together. I have always run the mixed solution through a fine mesh screen, although I would guess an un-bleached coffee filter would work just as well.

Pretty much does as Jim, use a bleached coffe filter when i fill my bottles with fresh working solution. Xtol is one of my favorite Developers and have not had any problems like you are having here.
Using 1+1 working solution should prolong developement enough to get even developement.
Would suggest to try a test roll sitting in a water bath at 20C a minute or two before developing and after rinse use distilled water with a drop of one of the many wetting agent on the marked.

Good luck

The marks look like poor agitaion and air bubbles Perhaps from over zealous agitation causing foaming.

This would be exacerbated if there's any trace of wetting agent in the dev. Anyway those dark spots are underdeveloped.

Ian

When I use Xtol, I always stir the 1:1 dilution before use it. Tap the tank at the begaining of the development to get rid of air bubbles.

pauldc said:

Given that I do not have these problems with my other developers seems strange to me.

I seem to have 2 sorts of marks - dark spots and then marks with a faint white line around them.

Thanks!

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Looks more like drying marks to me. Strange that it only happened with the XTOL. With your procedure of aggitation, dark spots would have been likely to be found along the edge of the film. How do you dry the film?

j-fr

The dark spots are the result of air bells on the film during development. When you first pour in the developer rap the tank on the counter about 3 time to jar them off the film. During agitation continue the rapping after you finish inversion of the tank to shake loose any air bells during agitation. If you are using a plastic tank place a towel that has been folded a couple of times as a cushion to prevent the tank from cracking. If you use a stainless steel tank a towel isn't necessary. The white marks look like trash and dust spots. Trash in the water can be filtered as previously mentioned. Use of PhotoFlo will loosen the water tension after the final wash eliminating water marks during drying. Also, dry the film in a room that doesn't have carpeting, laundry or anything else that collects dust easily.

Now you guys have stirred up memories. I had a problem like this quite a few years ago with some combination of film and developer, can't remember which, but I cured it with a few drops of wetting agent, AKA dish washing detergent, added to the developer. It could also be a prewash with wetting agent solution.

Pat Kearns said:

The dark spots are the result of air bells on the film during development.

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If this is the case, why only with Xtol and not other developers?

Thanks for the advice everyone. It is really bugging me that I only get this problem with Xtol.

I will try to filter my Xtol stock solutions. I am already using distilled water for my workflow so the water should not be the issue.

I dry my negatives (after washing in distilled water - no photo flow) in a lettuce spinner to get off most of the water and then in a drainpipe with a cool fan pumping air through. I do dry on the reel but this is the same as what I do with all my other developers with no problem.

Now people mention it, the one thing I have noticed is that I find my Xtol 1+1 solution does seem to foam more than my other developers. When I open the lid of the tank at the end of development to pour out the developer I have noticed a bit of froth which I don't usually get elsewhere. Also, I have noticed that Xtol when spilled on the hand (not that I do this regularly!) feels quite smooth and soapy.

But how can I reduce this? I do rap the tank twice after each agitation. My agitation method involved twisting and inverting the tank until all the solution has poured off the film and then re-inverting with a twist, waiting 5 seconds and rapping. I do my inversions quite smoothly to avoid shaking up the liquid too much but I wonder if even this is putting too much air in the solution and causing the foam. Should I think about using the twizzle stick method?

I will also go and invest in a new toothbrush and give my reel a good scrub just in case there are any contaminants.

Thanks again everyone!

Years ago when Xtol first came out I was having this problem. I contacted Kodak and sent them samples. A Kodak engineer called me and explained that these spots were technically called "donuts". They are a result of too little developer for the film. This was in the days when Kodak listed 1:3 dilutions for Xtol. They eliminated that data and are now, I believe, listing only 1:1 and full strength. I am surprised this problem is being experienced with 1:1. I use Xtol a lot and have never had the problem again since I switched to 1:1.

According to Kodak you need at least 3.5 oz. (100 ml) of full strength Xtol per roll.

I teach b&w photography at the community college here and we've used Xtol exclusively for 5 or 6 years. We do hundreds of rolls a semister and have never had any problems with Xtol.

Ted

XTol foams...thats just one of the characteristics. Pre-soak for 2 to 3 minutes, and be sure to bang the tank on something a few times to release the air bubbles. Personally I'd use straight instead of diluted developer for a variety of reasons. If your agitation works for other developers, it should work for all developers...XTol included. Change the above before trying to change your agitiation.

I have used XTOL at 1-3 and never had any problems. I do use a minimum of 100ml stock per roll and process in a JOBO 3 reel tank.