developing old Ferraniacolor CN16 film

[Nzoomed]

I got given these old rolls of ferraniacolour film here, dated 1959.
I see a note scribbled on a piece of paper that reads cn16 process.
Any chance of being able to develop this film and recover the images?
Would c41 chemistry develop this older film?
Also have an older roll of ektachrome that uses the e2 process.
Not sure what chance there is in recovering the images, but a quick Google search suggests that it might be able to be processed as black and white.

 

[Agulliver]

CN16 is the name Fuji put to C41 so normally CN16 films are processed as C41. However, C41 did not exist in 1959 and only began in the early 1970s. Goodness knows what process they were originally intended to undergo. I'd be tempted to try ordinary B&W processing and hope for usable B&W negatives.

As for E2, that's also probably a 1950s film....as by the mid 60s E4 was already on stream. I doubt anyone can perform the actual E2 process but I seem to recall it's not that different to E4, which a very small number of specialist labs might do or you can find recipes online.

I once processed an E4 film as B&W neg and the negs came out so dense I needed a 500W light table to get anything out of them.

You might also have more luck posting in the "colour film" section of the forums. Though this one is going to be tricky. How many of each type of film are there?

 

[Agulliver]

Hi...I just responded to your post in the Ferrania thread.

CN16 was the name Fuji gave to C41. But if these are from the 1950s they cannot be CN16/C41 as it wasn't invented until about 1973. The colour process originally intended would be long obsolete but someone here may just know what that process was.

As for E2, that is so arcane it's going to be very tricky. Unlike colour negative film, E2/3/4/6 films don't respond well to B&W processing which might be an option for colour negative films. E2 also dates back to the 50s and by the mid 60s E4 was the norm...and even that is now considered a speciality performed by just a couple of labs and some highly enthusiastic amateurs.

If those films are all "invertible", reversal film it's going to be difficult. But there's a chance there are images on there. The one time I developed an E4 film in B&W chemistry it came out almost black. Eventually some years later I got half decent B&W images from it by photographing the negatives on a 500W light table. It needed a very bright backlight.

Others here may have different suggestions for very old reversal film. I do recall E2 wasn't radically different to E4.

 

[koraks]

@Agulliver I've moved your other post here. Please refrain from cross posting in a case like this and just use the report function so we can look into it. In this case I had already fixed the situation before you entered your response. Thanks.

 

[lamerko]

The CN-16 process is Fuji's version of C-41. Since the films are probably reversible, and their age of service seriously exceeds that of C-41, I would ignore the note in question.
I wouldn't bother reversing them. C-41 chemistry would probably produce some color, provided the temperature doesn't exceed 22 degrees Celsius, but it might be better to process them as black and white and if there is a visible image - you can try reversing them to color later.

 

[Nzoomed]

Yes as far as I can tell, CN-16 was just fuji's name for C-41.
It's interesting to find this note inside the canister.
I expect someone was looking at getting it developed and never got round to it, but likely some photos lab suggested this process might have worked and placed the note inside.

I have no idea what chemistry it would have used either.
These films were found in an old shed prior to demolition, i doubt storage conditions were good.

I believe Ferraniacolor is a negative film?
Not too sure if there is much point trying to recover colour images in the ektachrome, apparently the dye couplers were unstable on this early iteration.
So it sounds like the ferrania film has the highest chance of getting results.
That's interesting that it's potentially possible to develop as black and white and recover colour images afterwards.

 

[lamerko]

According to the label it is a reversible film, probably a proprietary process. But perhaps it is somewhat compatible with E-3 (E-4).

 

[Nzoomed]

I think i will give it a go as black and white as you say, will take note of the temperature and find someone who has a darkroom.

 

[foc]

Since these films are pre 1972 (C41) they could be the Kodak process C22 or the Agfacolor pre CN17 or similar process. Usually if "color" is in the name it is a negative type film, chrome would suggest transparency film.

From photo memorabilia: However, until circa 1969 Fuji (then still based entirely within Japan) and Ferrania were also utilising the Agfacolor system as the basis of their colour materials.

I have read about people developing C22 and Agfa CNS in C41 BUT at 20C. Otherwise, the normal 38C will melt the emulsion.

Developer at 20C for 20 mins. and then bleach for 13 mins and fix for 13 mins (all at 20C)

I know the C41 developer is different from C22 but it could be worth a try.

You could also just develop it as B&W.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/c-41-processing-early-1950s-kodak-kodacolor-films.114513/

https://expiredfilmphotographer.wor...s-60s-era-kodak-colour-film-part-1-kodacolor/

https://expiredfilmphotographer.wor...s-60s-era-kodak-colour-film-part-3-ektacolor/

 

[Yezishu]

Ferrania CN16 was likely an imitator of early Agfa. I recommend a formula from the The British Journal of Photography.

Color Developer: 75g potassium carbonate or 50g sodium carbonate, 2.5g potassium bromide, 2g anhydrous sodium sulfite, 1.2ghydroxylamine hydrochloride, 3.2g T22 (TSS, CD1) or 6g T32, diluted to 1000ml. 18 °C 8 min.
note: Unlike Kodak C22, it does not use benzyl alcohol. 4g CD4 may also work(the dye hues may shift, but who cares?).

Use a magnesium sulfate bath for hardening(!), potassium ferricyanide bleach(!), and sodium thiosulfate for fixing. This method is suitable for old Ferraniacolor, Agfa CN14, and CN17(their CN17 means 17 Din).

 

[Ian Grant]

Note "Invertibile" it's a reversal film, there's a Formula for processing in BJP Almanacs of the period. Here's a YouTube link.

I used Ferrania reversal film in the very early 1970s, the process is very critical in terms of times and temperatures,

Ian

 

[qqphot]

If someone felt the need to add a note specifying CN-16, is it possible they had reused old cassettes with a different film than they'd originally contained? I suppose this could be determined by opening one and feeling for a taped attachment inside, and/or clipping off a small piece of the end to inspect.

also, it's interesting to see Amidol used in the first developer in the above Ferrania reversal process.

 

[blee1996]

I would suggest keep it simple and just use C41 at room temp like @foc mentioned. I have gotten image and some color from old color negative films (Agfa CNS, Orwo NC19), by following method:

"C41 developer at 20C for 20 mins, followed by blix and stab at 20C for about 10 mins each (these are done to completion anyway)."

 

[Agulliver]

I think what I would do, if I were in OP's position, is try developing one roll, or even part of one roll, for 7 minutes in ID-11 (D76) for 7 minutes. That will establish if B&W development is possible. It will also give clues as to whether any colour development is feasible.

 

[Yezishu]

Ion is right, it's great to have someone who has actually worked with old film.
The key point is to use gentle low-temperature processing and multiple hardening.
Then appropriate developer should work for reversal or black-and-white development. Amidol was used at that time as a high-activity, high-contrast developer.