developing negs only ... what do i need?

MattKing · Jan 17, 2008

bessa_L_R3a said:
Yes, that is the answer ... sorry it took so long to sink in ... i am thick headed.

Not true (the thick headed part).

What you haven't yet acquired is a sense of what the relative importance is for each of the various factors. For example, you are concerned about small variations in temperature, which in B & W are easily adjusted for, whereas you may not have thought enough about (again strictly for example) the importance of ..... (fill in the blank here, although one of my favorite examples is dust and the role it plays in maintaining sanity).

All of that will come soon - have fun, and keep asking questions.

Matt

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2008

(there was a url link here which no longer exists),

This the way I started in September, I was only going to develop Black and White film and scan the negatives because it cost so much more to process than the C-41. I was motivated by Dwanye's screwing up some processing too. Processing film is like taking drugs, do a little and soon you are doing a little more. Next thing you know you are telling everyone how easy it is to process film. Then I slipped over the edge and down the slippery slope ... and on an impulse I brought and enlarger ... like I really needed an enlarger. It was not like I had a darkroom or anything like that. Over the next two months I made my den a part time dry darkroom and the master bathroom a part time wet darkroom.

You can stop now if you try!

As someone else on this site said [I can't remember whom*] "Photography is not for the faint of wallet."

Steve

* Will someone please tell me whom to credit for this quote?

bessa_L_R3a · Jan 17, 2008

very first shot ....

it's not much .... but it's a photo!

http://robertdavid.fastmail.fm/negatives/first_shot.jpg

IloveTLRs · Jan 17, 2008

Ooh, lovely grain

bessa_L_R3a · Jan 17, 2008

MattKing said:
one of my favorite examples is dust and the role it plays in maintaining sanity).

Matt

are you saying dust factor can be just as important or more important than keeping temperature right?

TheTrailTog · Jan 17, 2008

bessa_L_R3a said:
are you saying dust factor can be just as important or more important than keeping temperature right?

I think he's saying nothing will make your blood boil faster than going to check on some drying negatives only to find dust or those cursed cat hairs stuck to your roll ...LOL Ilove my cats but they have come close to strangulation a couple times

David Brown · Jan 17, 2008

Sirius Glass said:
As someone else on this site said [I can't remember whom*] "Photography is not for the faint of wallet."

Steve

* Will someone please tell me whom to credit for this quote?

Steve: That quote used to be my sig line. It's not that I've changed my mind, I just took it off after a while. But, since you brought it up - I've put it back.

As for "credit", the quote actually comes from my wife ...

srs5694 · Jan 17, 2008

bessa_L_R3a said:
it's not much .... but it's a photo!

http://robertdavid.fastmail.fm/negatives/first_shot.jpg

That looks good to me. You've got a good range of tones and no obvious surge marks or other signs of processing irregularities. I do notice a white spot above and to the left of the mirror -- that's probably a dust speck. If it's not firmly affixed to the negative, you should be able to brush it away with a negative brush -- but as others have alluded to, it's very difficult to get a negative 100% dust-free for printing or scanning. There are "spotting" kits to help cover up this sort of problem once a print is made, or you can do it digitally if you scan.

bessa_L_R3a · Jan 17, 2008

srs5694 said:
I do notice a white spot above and to the left of the mirror -- that's probably a dust speck.

Yeah, I wondered about that, too. If that is a dust speck then I understand Matt King´s point about worrying too much about temperature.

I thought it was an exposure blowout. How could that be dust? I will inspect the neg ... I do have a lot of dust in the apt. but before I scan, I always wipe the neg down with Rexton negative cleaner and PEC wipe.

TheTrailTog · Jan 17, 2008

bessa_L_R3a said:
...but before I scan, I always wipe the neg down with Rexton negative cleaner and PEC wipe.

Doesn't matter how much time I spend wiping mine down before scanning, I ALWAYS end up getting a dust spec or two at least Thank god for Lightroom spot correction.

Mahler_one · Jan 17, 2008

<Practice loading a dud film in daylight first before trying it for real.?

I agree, but why don't the "bugs" that occur in total darkness EVER happen with the practice rolls? :}

Great suggestions here.

Edwin

bessa_L_R3a · Mar 2, 2008

still wrestling with temp issues ...

Hey guys,

i have since developed about 5 rolls since this whole thread began ... not a whole lot, but i've been busy.

my issue with temp is this: tonight i'm going to try developing my HP5+ 400 at room temperature developer. I set up my working solutions of Ilford rapid fixer, HC 110 dev, and photoflo, and let them sit in the bathroom next to the water heater, where it's a little warmer.

After about two hours, I stuck my trusty little Taylor tea thermometer in the liquids and got:

Dev temp: 69.3
Fixer temp: 68

They are in slightly different thickness plastic measuring containers, but why the temp difference?

Can I still develop for 5 minutes at 69.3 even though digitaltruth.com says 5 minutes at 68?

And the fixer temperature isn't as important as the dev temperature, right?

thanks,

Robert

TheTrailTog · Mar 2, 2008

Not sure what's causing the temp difference but, go by your developer temperature for your developing time. Here's a chart for temperature compensation:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006210208211880.pdf

bessa_L_R3a · Mar 2, 2008

thanks! i have that link bookmarked. will definitely do that.

bdial · Mar 2, 2008

As long as the fix (and whatever you use for stop) is within a few degrees of the developer you'll be fine. The temperature problem with stop, fix and wash is not so much the chemical activity, but thermal shock to the emulsion.
As noted, you do need to compensate for temp with the development time because of increased, or decreased chemical activity which is dependant on the temperature of the solution.

srs5694 · Mar 2, 2008

I'd also add that published times are recommended starting points. Because of differences in agitation style, thermometer errors, personal preferences, etc., your optimum development time may be greater or less than what you'll find in a chart. By all means try using the recommended time and temperature, but if you don't get results you like, adjust your time (or temperature) accordingly. Once you've got something nailed down, if your temperature changes (say, because room temperature changes in summer vs. winter), a chart or graph like the one Xia Ke referenced will help you adjust time for the temperature you use.

bessa_L_R3a · Mar 3, 2008

i finished two rolls tonight ... they look fine dev registered at about 68.5 and i just did the full five minutes.

i've gotten pretty good and loading, too ... 12 minutes on the clock to load two rolls into the tank.

btw, are opened canisters recyclable?

jasonjoo · Mar 5, 2008

I read through the entire thread and it was very helpful! However, I'll be buying my own chemicals this weekend to try developing some of my film as well, and I have a few questions as well!

My first question is: Can you use straight tap water for the pre-soak and washing of the film? Or should I use drinking water?

Thanks!

Jason

JBrunner · Mar 5, 2008

jasonjoo said:
I read through the entire thread and it was very helpful! However, I'll be buying my own chemicals this weekend to try developing some of my film as well, and I have a few questions as well!

My first question is: Can you use straight tap water for the pre-soak and washing of the film? Or should I use drinking water?

Thanks!

Jason

Hi Jason,

If your local water is of decent quality (not too hard) and doesn't contain sediment, its fine for presoak and washing. Just give it a final rinse off with distilled or bottled.

jasonjoo · Mar 5, 2008

Thanks Jason! Now that I opened Pandora's box, I might as well start spilling my guts in this thread (bessa_L_R3a, if you would like me to start my own thread I can!).

Jason, I watched your videos and will be following your methodology! You mentioned that if you forgot anything important for the development process, to ask on APUG, so I will

I wrote down a list of things I will need to start my own darkroom. So far this is what I have:

-Developing tank and reel (I'm going with the Hewes stainless setup)
-Thermometer and timer
-Large container to hold all the chemicals to bring up to temperature
-Developer (I think I'll go with HC-110)
-Stop bath (Using water to save some money!)
-Fixer (Most users mentioned the Ilford Rapid Fixer, so that's the one I'll use as well)
-"Photoflo" (sic)
-Syringe, graduated cylinders, and a glass container so that I can reuse the fixer)
-Clothe pins and some string to hold up my film for drying

Not sure if I'm missing anything at this point, but I was wondering if someone could confirm that these are the things I will need to pick up at the photo store (Freestyle btw!) on Friday.

Also, I had a few general questions for the developing process.

1) Which chemicals can I dump in the drain, and which chemicals need to be disposed of properly?
2) Where can I get one of those cool hurricane washers found in JBrunner's video? If they are pricey, nevermind that I asked! If they are worth the costs, is there a special water-pressure system that I'll need? In that case, nevermind as well!

So far, this is about it. Once I pick up the equipment, I'm sure I'll have tons of more questions. If I'm missing anything, please let me know!

Thanks for your help,

Jason

JBrunner · Mar 6, 2008

Looks pretty complete. You should get some nitrile gloves, the kind not lubed with talc or starch, so save yourself some dermal absorbtion when the tank dribbles.

Your pre-wash water, spent developer, and stop water can go down the drain. Fixer (after it's spent, you get to keep using it until it is) needs proper disposal. If there is a photo lab near they will often take it in for their silver recovery system, and that is one of the easiest ways to get rid of it. To check your fixer, clear a small piece of film in it when you first mix it up. Note the time it takes. Do this at the beginning of each session. When it takes twice as long, it's time for new fixer.

jasonjoo · Mar 6, 2008

Thanks Jason!

As for storing my chemicals, it seems that some prefer glass over plastic. While shopping for graduates and other storage containers, is it better to go with glass? Also, I've read that it's best to keep the developer out of contact with air and many people use marbles to do so. Is this the case with the fixer and Photo flo as well?

Jason

JBrunner · Mar 6, 2008

jasonjoo said:
Thanks Jason!

As for storing my chemicals, it seems that some prefer glass over plastic. While shopping for graduates and other storage containers, is it better to go with glass? Also, I've read that it's best to keep the developer out of contact with air and many people use marbles to do so. Is this the case with the fixer and Photo flo as well?

Jason

I prefer plastic, because it doesn't break. Glass isn't permeable like plastic so it keeps things better long term. At the rate I process and print my chemicals deplete far before the minor permeability of the dark plastic jugs even comes close to being an issue. IMO the worry about plastic permeability regarding normal photo-chemicals under regular usage conditions is overrated.

In "normal" terms developer is the only thing that is readily subject to oxidation.

My advice is to mix up the quantity of Hc110 from the concentrate you need to for a developing session and use it one shot. One bottle still goes a long way, so it's not a big expense.

I dispense with all the working solution BS and mix it 1:50 direct from the concentrate (US version), and use the times for dilution E as a starting point. Dilution E gives more comfortable developing times than dil B (more margin) After I have developed my film I dump it. Using it one-shot promotes consistency, and that is the name of the game.

The keeping qualities of Hc110 concentrate are such that you don't need to worry about marbles. An opened bottle of concentrate keeps for a very many months. An unopened bottle will likely keep till you die. Rodinal is another concentrated liquid developer that also seems to keep indefinitely. Its easy to check developer before you use it, just put a snip of film in it at temp and see that it develops.

I might use marbles or a bit of nitrogen for paper developer, but again, I go through it fast enough that keeping is never an issue.

jasonjoo · Mar 6, 2008

Man, thanks again Jason. You have been super helpful! I'm planning on picking up the materials tomorrow and then I'm off to a concert. But assuming I'm not too tired, I'll begin my adventures in developing! Actually, it would probably be better to do this after a full nights of rest, but I won't sleep a wink. The anticipation is already getting to me

BTW, I'll follow your instructions on the 1:50 mix. Do you have any resources involving development times? I looked on the Kodak webpage, but they only show development times for solutions A and B. Thanks!

Jason

JBrunner · Mar 7, 2008

jasonjoo said:
Man, thanks again Jason. You have been super helpful! I'm planning on picking up the materials tomorrow and then I'm off to a concert. But assuming I'm not too tired, I'll begin my adventures in developing! Actually, it would probably be better to do this after a full nights of rest, but I won't sleep a wink. The anticipation is already getting to me

BTW, I'll follow your instructions on the 1:50 mix. Do you have any resources involving development times? I looked on the Kodak webpage, but they only show development times for solutions A and B. Thanks!

Jason

For a starting point with dilution JB, (1:50 direct from concentrate), develop 50% longer than dilution B, for example if the time for dil B is 6 min, develop with dilution JB for 9min.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

developing negs only ... what do i need?

MattKing

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Sirius Glass

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bessa_L_R3a

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JBrunner

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jasonjoo

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