Developing, HELP!!!!

kinkedsb · Feb 17, 2008

I've been using D-76 with Ilford Stop and Ilford Fixer all diluted. and I am still getting the same results. I have been trying test sheets to try different exposure times under the enlarger. I've even tryed keeping the print in the developer for longer than 3 minutes.
I've been doing around 3 minutes in the developer, 30 seconds in stop, and 2 minutes in the fixer.
I have no idea what to do anymore, all the prints are coming out the exact same, and I hate to keep wasting new paper.

Kevin Caulfield · Feb 17, 2008

D-76 is a film developer, but perhaps it can also be used for paper? 3 minutes is a long time in the developer. I usually develop RC paper for 1 minute and FB for 1 3/4 mins. Have you made test strips?

GM Bennett · Feb 17, 2008

Am I reading your post wrong, or are you using D-76 (a film developer) for paper?

kinkedsb · Feb 17, 2008

I've tried test strips, but nothing is getting developed on the test strips all together.
So would I be able to use D-76 for paper developing too?

papagene · Feb 17, 2008

I would suggest getting some Dektol ( a paper developer) and start over from there. I think it would greatly improve your results.
Good luck and keep on trying... when you get it down pat, it will be a lot of fun.

gene

kinkedsb · Feb 17, 2008

I really feel clueless, I really had no idea that I could not use D-76 as paper developer, I'm new to darkroom and I'm self-teaching myself, b/c theyre is no classes going on around my area for at least 4 months.
But thanks for the help, that is most likely the reason why this is happening, Thanks>

Photo Engineer · Feb 17, 2008

D-76 is a rather high solvent developer. As such, it can cause low speed when used with papers. The paper emulsions are super sensitive to the high solvent and it causes them to dissolve and lose imaging speed. DO NOT use D-76 with paper. It can be done, but only with some papers.

PE

GM Bennett · Feb 17, 2008

There's lots of material on the internet, or at your public library. If you're using RC (resin-coated, ie., plastic) paper, you should be using an RC developer...

Photo Engineer · Feb 17, 2008

Ummm, there is really no such thing as an RC developer as opposed to a FB developer for papers. Sorry.

PE

JBrunner · Feb 17, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
Ummm, there is really no such thing as an RC developer as opposed to a FB developer for papers. Sorry.

PE

Ron,
Would the substrate have any effect on developer action at all? I never gave it a second thought.

J

waileong · Feb 17, 2008

You know, buy a darkroom book from Amazon.com, or Google can also solve your problems.

CBG · Feb 17, 2008

Keep asking questions here. There's lots of folks who've gone through the same learning process too. Photography has technical stuff to trip you up, but if you hang in there, it gets very worthwhile.

C

Kevin Caulfield · Feb 17, 2008

Yes, don't be discouraged and keep asking questions. When I started I had to ask if I needed separate developers for paper and film. If you're getting something you're doing okay. But a book or two would help a lot.

Photo Engineer · Feb 17, 2008

The substrate does have an effect, but there is no specific RC vs FB developer as the effects of the substrate are mainly seen when coating the emulsion. Once the emulsion formula is adjusted properly there is no big problem.

PE

Bruce Osgood · Feb 17, 2008

kinkedsb
D76, when used 'properly' is not intended an any way to be a paper developer. Forget everything you've experienced using it as a paper deveoper and get some Dektol, as someone else suggested. Start over. Start out with the proper tools for the job then fiddle around once you get a proper print. As a beginner your walking blindly down a blind alley and in the wrong direction.

Let me welcome you to APUG.

Jim Noel · Feb 17, 2008

Your problem is obviously trying to use a film developer for paper, whether RC or fiber. Paper developers by design are much more active than film developers.

kinkedsb · Feb 17, 2008

I really appreciate all the help, I was completely unaware of the fact that I couldn't use D-76 for paper developing. But now I know.
Thanks.

dancqu · Feb 18, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
Ummm, ... PE

I'll second that Ummm. How about this or that
brand of multicontrast developer? Dan

GM Bennett · Feb 18, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
Ummm, there is really no such thing as an RC developer as opposed to a FB developer for papers. Sorry.

PE

Understood; I was just trying to point out that he should be using a paper developer rather than a film developer. It's more likely than not that he's using an RC paper, so he may want to try Ilford Multigrade or the like. However, you're right; it's confusing to bring up paper substrate.

Photo Engineer · Feb 18, 2008

dancqu said:
I'll second that Ummm. How about this or that
brand of multicontrast developer? Dan

Dan;

Actually, there really is no such thing as a multicontrast developer either. Since there are so many methods of doing MC and so many brands, how do you target one over another? How do you refine it for MC vs GC papers?

Nope, just a way to charge more for the developer IMHO.

PE

PhotoJim · Feb 18, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
The substrate does have an effect, but there is no specific RC vs FB developer as the effects of the substrate are mainly seen when coating the emulsion. Once the emulsion formula is adjusted properly there is no big problem.

I find that fibre paper invites a longer development time than RC (because it absorbs so much chemical, perhaps?) to get similar results, but the same chemistry works in the same way otherwise.

If I give 90 seconds development with RC paper, I give at least 2 minutes and sometimes 3 with fibre paper.

DaveOttawa · Feb 18, 2008

kinkedsb said:
I really feel clueless, I really had no idea that I could not use D-76 as paper developer, I'm new to darkroom and I'm self-teaching myself, b/c theyre is no classes going on around my area for at least 4 months.
But thanks for the help, that is most likely the reason why this is happening, Thanks>

As others have said D76 isn't designed for paper; you've discovered it doesn't work so just get a paper developer.
"I'm new to darkroom and I'm self-teaching myself" is kind of like I'm new to the trombone and I'm self-teaching myself, could be time consuming and frustrating. I'd hate to see someone get discouraged by some simple technical issues, look at Kodak and Ilford's websites for instruction guides on the basics (such as http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200629187211322.pdf)
and/or borrow or buy one of these books:

"Mastering Black-and-White Photography From
Camera to Darkroom"
by Bernard J Suess. (Allworth Press)
[Excellent basic how-to book on black & white photography.]
"Black And White Photography"
by Henry Horenstein (Little Brown And Company)
[Also an excellent basic how-to book on black & white
photography.]

And keep posting here and looking at other peoples work.

Photo Engineer · Feb 18, 2008

PhotoJim said:
I find that fibre paper invites a longer development time than RC (because it absorbs so much chemical, perhaps?) to get similar results, but the same chemistry works in the same way otherwise.

If I give 90 seconds development with RC paper, I give at least 2 minutes and sometimes 3 with fibre paper.

This is possibly the case, but it may also be due to the redesign of the emulsion for the two supports. IDK. It might also be that the emulsions are not even of the same type. There are too many possible answers.

The point is that there are not 2 developers for the two supports but there are film developers and paper developers.

The only paper developer that I would use for film is Dektol.

PE

Bruce Osgood · Feb 18, 2008

I think RC paper has a developer incorporated into the emulsion which allows development to completion in one minute, while FB paper does not have a DI surface.

Bob F. · Feb 18, 2008

Then there are developers such as Ansco 130 which some use for paper (1+1) and some for film at higher dilution (1+5 IIRC). I've no idea how well it works for film as I've not tried it but I'm sure there are people here who have - I recall reading about it.

But yes, it is all getting a bit confusing... In general use film developer for film and paper developer for paper unless you know what you are doing (unlike me)...

Cheers, Bob.

P.S. I'd love to know what puts the "Multigrade" in "Multigrade Developer" too - or this the same sort of thing as we see with: "digital tripod" ...

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