Developing c-41 film with CD-2

Back in 2019 I had ordered CD-4 from a well known photo chemical supplier. All indications at the time when I had first tried to use it would have seemed to indicate that it was in fact probably CD-2. So I changed the mixing order and tried to make the best of it. Recently I ordered more chemistry from them and received a note in the shipment. In this note it indicated that the manufacturer in China at the time had sent this to a third party who then mislabeled it. At the time the importer had thought all the mislabeled product was sent to Kodak, but they had ended up with some of it.

Has any one here processed c-41 films with CD-2? If so what has your experience been with the result? Also can anyone here make a suggestion for a developer formula using CD-2? I've been using publicly avialble C-41 recipes, but things don't quite look as good as what I think they could. And yes it's the wrong color developer, so of course it would look wrong, but I'm sure it could be better optimized.

I do have a whole can of Kodak movie print film that I could start using as a negative film, but I understand that as a process film that its slow, so using this with C-41 or even ECN-2 films would be preferred.

I do not think, that CD-2 will lose film speed over CD-4. If CD-2 is weaker in action than CD-4 and you get underdeveloped film, simply give extra CD-2 to the developer, raise pH or extend dev time.

@mohmad khatab has certainly experimented with CD-2 based developers and C-41 film, I hope he can chime in here.

Rudeofus said:

@mohmad khatab has certainly experimented with CD-2 based developers and C-41 film, I hope he can chime in here.

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Hello my dear brothers.
I'm a fan of (CD2),,
- Never tamper with the pH, you must use the standard pH stated in the formula.,

Several very important tips if you want to use this great ingredient.
1 - If you want to use (CD2) instead of (DC4), you must substitute the weight with an equivalent of 0.82 and this means that if the formula states that we must use 5 grams of (CD4) element, then in that case use 4.1 grams of CD2

2 - The most important point here, is (how to add this element to the formula) ... This point cost me a lot of effort and sweat and caused the damage of three pH meters until I reached the optimal way.
- An ingredient (CD2) that should not be added directly to the formula, it will cause a very nasty oil stain, it will cause the beaker to spin if it is plastic and it will destroy the pH meter if it is plastic, and there is no substance that can Clean up those savage wicked oil spots.

To prevent this from happening, you should do the following:
- Dissolve the component (CD2) in 100 ml of boiling water. With continuous stirring for a full minute, let the solution cool down, then go and prepare the rest of the solution, except for (CD2).
Then you will add a dissolved (CD2) solution to the developed formula, and you will stir continuously, then you will add water until the total amount of the prepared converter reaches 500 ml.

Zone V - C-41 developer.
Water ................................... 300 mL
Potassium Carbonate............. 16 g
Sodium Sulfite ..................... 1.75 g
Potassium Bromide .................0.75g
Hydroxylamine Sulfate ............. 1 g
CD-2 ..........................................2.05g
Potassium Hydroxide ............... 0.5 g
Water .>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500 ml
This formula has no pH and works great for me.
This means 300 ml to prepare the developer (except for the CD2 element) + 100 ml (dissolved CD2 solution) + 100 ml of water with a temperature of 52 degrees Celsius = 500 ml for all the resulting solution.

Important note:
You will feel that the color of the developer that has been prepared based on (CD2), its color tends to be a little dark (this is compared to the developer that is prepared based on (CD4)), so you should not worry about this issue and do not pay attention to it, but through my experience Personal with this item, I feel the developer's shelf life with this item is a bit longer,,
Don't say thank you
I don't deserve it.
And even if I earned it
I know you wouldn't say it.

Excuse me, my brother.
I probably read your post after I wrote the response.
So, I think there is a misunderstanding with it.
You are not sure about the item that you received from China, and you are not sure if this item is (CD4), but you may be (CD2), but you are not sure of that.
- Through your story, I feel that the element you have is not (CD2),,
I think it's CD3...
Why ?
Because the component (CD2) is by its nature stronger in terms of effectiveness than the component (CD4), it is assumed that we reduce the amount of weight because its effectiveness is stronger and not the other way around.

And since the developer that you prepared did not work well, this indicates that the component in your pocket is (CD3).

Well, what is the solution in that case?
The solution is to double the amount of (CD3) to double the amount of (CD4), for example,,
I gave you a recipe in the previous post based on (5 grams CD4) and we converted this amount to (4.1 grams CD2) and then we divided the amount of the solution into only half the amount (half a liter) and eventually we will use (2. 05 g CD2 ).
You should try this formula as I told you in the previous post.
If it does not work with you, then you really need to prepare another half liter, but on the basis that you will consider that the ingredient in your possession is (CD3), and in this second experiment you will use (5 grams of CD3 you have) with half a liter of water to produce half a liter from the developer.

I thank you for this information. I had long suspected that this substance was in fact CD-2, it only became a confirmed fact in the form of a note in a delivery from the same company. Please note that I did not order directly from China, but from a supplier in the US who had received a mislabeled shipment and then perpetuated the mislabeling until they came to understand the problem.

The conversion factor is very much appreciated. I had noticed a speed increase because CD-2 is more active than CD-4, but was not developing enough films to be bothered with trying to work out how much more active it was.

Your method for adding the CD-2 to a solution is interesting. I have found that it can be added directly into solution if done in the correct order. After adding the sodium sulfite and the Hydroxylamine Sulfate I then add the CD-2. Upon adding the alkali it does start to look a little bit like soup, but clears up completely after the water is added to make 1L of solution. Before I had found this order I became acquainted with the oily nastiness to my dismay. I managed to etch the plastic of one of my developing tanks, and the tar on my pH meter does appear from all attempts to be quite permanent.

Is the temperature stated the mixing temperature or the processing temperature. I ask since it seems to be a bit warm for a color processing temperature.

I also must say those are good looking images.

You might want to check eBay; CD4 is offered by a couple of sellers in small quantities at reasonable prices.
Of course you could keep mucking about with the CD2, but I don't think it's ever going to look really good to be honest. Why not use the CD2 for alternatives, such as soft-working B&W developer (kind of like a PPD developer)?

koraks said:

but I don't think it's ever going to look really good to be honest. Why not use the CD2

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You cannot describe the taste of cheese unless you have already tasted it.
The taste can be imagined, but that's just imagination, you can't judge the taste based on imagination
Have you ever used a developer that was prepared based on CD2?
You definitely didn't.
These are pictures of one of my young trainees
I developed this movie using a developer that was prepared based on (CD2).
It is the Kodak Color Plus 200 film that has been expired since 2014



View attachment 292220

quiver said:

I thank you for this information. I had long suspected that this substance was in fact CD-2, it only became a confirmed fact in the form of a note in a delivery from the same company. Please note that I did not order directly from China, but from a supplier in the US who had received a mislabeled shipment and then perpetuated the mislabeling until they came to understand the problem.

The conversion factor is very much appreciated. I had noticed a speed increase because CD-2 is more active than CD-4, but was not developing enough films to be bothered with trying to work out how much more active it was.

Your method for adding the CD-2 to a solution is interesting. I have found that it can be added directly into solution if done in the correct order. After adding the sodium sulfite and the Hydroxylamine Sulfate I then add the CD-2. Upon adding the alkali it does start to look a little bit like soup, but clears up completely after the water is added to make 1L of solution. Before I had found this order I became acquainted with the oily nastiness to my dismay. I managed to etch the plastic of one of my developing tanks, and the tar on my pH meter does appear from all attempts to be quite permanent.

Is the temperature stated the mixing temperature or the processing temperature. I ask since it seems to be a bit warm for a color processing temperature.

I also must say those are good looking images.

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It has nothing to do with the temperature of the process. Inevitably the process temperature will be according to the standard method 38°C.
__________________
The mixing temperature of chemistry is divided into two parts.
The first section: is to dissolve (CD2) on its own,,,,, This must be done in boiling 100 ml water of 100 ° C, preferably deionized water.

The second section: is the preparation of all the developer (except CD2) according to the logical arrangement of the formula, all of this is done in water at a temperature of 52 degrees Celsius.
__________________
Now here is an important note.
You mix the two solutions,,, but on the condition that you pour the solution (CD2) on the second solution that contains (the rest of the formula).. At that moment, the temperature of the first solution was (approximately less than 100 degrees Celsius) while the second solution was 52 Celsius... You don't have to worry. This is exactly what is required. The temperature of the mixture will rise to over 52, maybe up to 70 Celsius. You shouldn't be worried about that.

What you have to do now is to keep stirring continuously without stopping and at the highest possible speed for a period of no less than five minutes during the stirring. You will increase the water drop by drop and stir until the final solution reaches 500 ml and do not stop stirring until it becomes famous That the developer has become completely clear and transparent, but a little dark.
- You won't find any oil spots at all - trust me.
Allow me to know, how much is the price of this item (CD2).?
Let me know what bleaching solution you are using.

So from Artcraft 225g or a half pound of CD-2 is $35. I'm using ferricyanide bleach. I already had the chemicals on hand and my storage space for chemistry is limited. I think I'll stick to my method of mixing. It works and I don't have any issues now with nastiness.

I only regret using Pro Image 100 for the otters. I clearly needed a higher shutter speed, but could not have that with that film and the lens I was using.

quiver said:

So from Artcraft 225g or a half pound of CD-2 is $35. I'm using ferricyanide bleach. I already had the chemicals on hand and my storage space for chemistry is limited. I think I'll stick to my method of mixing. It works and I don't have any issues now with nastiness.View attachment 292325 View attachment 292326 View attachment 292327

I only regret using Pro Image 100 for the otters. I clearly needed a higher shutter speed, but could not have that with that film and the lens I was using.

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Oh god, come on, that's a really great price, man
We had a colleague in the forum, a respectable man from Serbia, and he wanted to buy some of the development items, but we found him only a CD3 from Ebay, and unfortunately he bought 50 at about the same price.
Do they have CD1? If you have a chance, ask them.

Freecyanide is excellent. But it's pricey, I prefer cheap copper bleach.
Yes, the techniques of photographing this marine animal, you need several experiments in order to gain experiences of photographing animals while in motion. But they were excellent photos.

I imagine that the sulfuric acid used in that bleach is quite inexpensive, but getting strong acids can be a bit harder in the US. Also fume extraction where I'm developing film is non existent so the fumes from a strong acid could be a problem. Also ferriccyanide is a multi purpose chemical for me as I can use it for cyanotypes.

Artcraft does not list CD-1 on their site. I would think that that particular developing agent would be very hard to find or may only be listed by its chemical name. I'm not aware of any current photographic process that uses CD-1. CD-2 through CD-4 are all in current photographic processes.

Just had a thought in reguards to the sulfuric acid in the copper bleach formula. I could probably substitute the appropriate amount of sodium bisulfate in the formula in place of the sulfuric acid.

There is currently no process based on this developing agent, but it can be used as a good alternative to CD4 - very powerful and more powerful than CD2.

quiver said:

sulfuric acid i

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What formula are you talking about, brother?
Traditional copper bleach does not require sulfuric acid at all.
Only hydrolyzed to NaCl (deiodized) + copper sulfate (deionized water), this is the ideal regular formula

Looks like you're talking about a recipe from Agfa, which is a very old recipe that actually contained 6ml of sulfuric acid - I don't recommend that formula - I hate it because it's too fast and hard to control.

It's the only formula that I can come up with in a web search. Could you provide or point me to the formula for the bleach that doesn't require sulfuric acid? This sounds much more convenient from a procurement standpoint as copper sulfate is sold as root killer here in the US.

quiver said:

It's the only formula that I can come up with in a web search. Could you provide or point me to the formula for the bleach that doesn't require sulfuric acid? This sounds much more convenient from a procurement standpoint as copper sulfate is sold as root killer here in the US.

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I am currently very ill. And I'm not in a condition to write much.
But what I wanted to tell you is that copper bleach is very cheap, has excellent results and can live on the shelf for years without expiring.
But he needs to use a cleaning solution before him, and a cleaning solution after his use, provided that each solution is different from the other, meaning that the first cleaning solution is written on it (before bleaching) and the second on it is written on it (after bleaching), in practice the composition of two solutions is almost the same But they must be separated.
Please give me some time to gather my strength and find my recipe book and I will write you whatever you need.

mohmad khatab said:

I am currently very ill. And I'm not in a condition to write much.

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I understand and I'm praying for you.

quiver said:

I understand and I'm praying for you.

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Hello my dear colleague.
These recipes I got from the late great teacher of our world Mr. P.E.


solution (Pre-bleach )
Sod. sulfite ................. 40 g
Acetic acid .................. 20ml
sod. Acetate................. 30g
water>>>>>>>>>>>>>1 L
PH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 The solution is mixed in water with a temperature of not less than 52 degrees Celsius
After washing the film well from the remnants of the developer, this solution is used for a full minute (at least) with rapid stirring at room temperature. Then the film is rinsed lightly after that.
Copper bleach.
Copper sulfate...................................100g
sodium chloride (without iodine)........100g
in 1 liter of water (distilled or deionized)
This solution has no pH.The solution is mixed in water with a temperature of not less than 52 degrees Celsius
This solution is used for a period of no less than 7 minutes with continuous stirring. Then the film is washed several times.
solution (Clean Bath )
Sod. sulfite ................. 15 g
Acetic acid .................. 7 ml
water ............................ 1 L
PH................................... 4.5 The solution is mixed in water with a temperature of not less than 52 degrees Celsius
After washing the film well, this solution is used for two minutes with rapid stirring at room temperature, then the film is rinsed after that before using (Fixier)
It is preferable to filter the solutions after each development using a cotton swab with funnel to purify the solutions from any impurities.

Important note:
With regard to the element sodium chloride, table salt will not do the job and will not work as it always contains a small percentage of iodide.
What is required is sodium chloride without iodine.
Do I personally go to a company that produces table salt in my country and asked them for this salt, and they gave me a kilo for free, I really don't know if it is available on the internet or not?

If you want to use this curriculum, you will find that the number of steps is more. And it will take more effort.
But this curriculum is characterized by being very cheap and lives for a very long period of time, and its results are always exemplary.

quiver said:

I understand and I'm praying for you.

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