Developing C-22 in B&W

kb244 · Sep 15, 2006

Ok, I already seen many people say you can develop it in D76 or in Hc-110, the problem I'm having of course is with all the people that say they've done it for years and post example don't say the critical bits... For example...

TIME , TEMPERATURE & DILUTIONS

Saying you can do it, or have done it doesnt mean a thing to me if you cant tell me 'how'. (preferably times for HC-110)

I don't mean to be so blunt but when i've been thru several threads on many different sites and they all say they can do it, but not a single person post their times or temperature it gets really annoying.

glennfromwy · Sep 15, 2006

I've never done it myself but most everyone I know who has say - "HC-110 and treat it like Tri-X".
That's likely as good as you're gonna hear, so all you need to do is look up that info. The results will probably be very difficult or impossible to print. They seem to scan just fine from what I've seen, however.

Ray Heath · Sep 15, 2006

hey Karl, why don't you just process a roll at a normal time/temp/del for another film of the same iso and see what you get, don't be so precious about it

kb244 · Sep 16, 2006

Ray Heath said:
hey Karl, why don't you just process a roll at a normal time/temp/del for another film of the same iso and see what you get, don't be so precious about it

Because you don't exactly find C-22 all the time, and its better to waste 1 for test, than 3, when you only got say 2. Not to mention there are several B&W films that have ISO 100 or 400 per se, and will have a very large number of different times, not to mention C-22 is color film, not B&W, and without knowing a time that one color film was already developed at in B&W chemistry I have no "normal t/t/d" to work with.

htmlguru4242 · Sep 23, 2006

Treat it as Tri-X pushed two stops, maybe a little more; I normally use D-76

It's REALLY hard to tell this exactly, as it's going to vary significantly with the film's age.

Try a clip test first.

PhotoJim · Mar 3, 2007

This is just me thinking aloud... would C-41 film be similar enough that you could run experiments with it and then use your results as a good starting point with C-22?

Some expired C-41 film would be easy to get and it would make for easy testing.

Photo Engineer · Mar 3, 2007

Jim;

NO, the films are so totally different that they will not compare well at all.

PE

fschifano · Mar 13, 2007

kb244 said:
Because you don't exactly find C-22 all the time, and its better to waste 1 for test, than 3, when you only got say 2.

I'm assuming that these rolls are unexposed, so take my comments with that in mind. Consider that C-22 films are obsolete, and you can't buy them new. Any C-22 process film will be old, very old, and likely not much good any more. You can't easily get processing for them. I think there is one place in the US that will process it as a color negative film, but it's expensive and they don't guarantee results. The current crop of C-41 films are vastly superior. Why on earth would you care if they don't work out? Better to save them as collector pieces. Any images you might coax out of them will be difficult to work with at best.

Now if you're talking about already exposed found film, that's another story.

Chaska · Mar 13, 2007

I have used HC110 dilB for 7 minutes 4 times for found film the results as follows:
1. 122 Verichrome from the 50's: Old pictures were not there but te 3 I took to finish the roll came out
2. 105 Verichrome from the 20's (?): completely blank

Chaska · Mar 13, 2007

Oops.
3. 16mm c41 from the 70's: developed ok
4. 127 c22 from the 60's or so: blank

If it is important, try a clip test. Otherwise just give it a shot knowing that anything you get will be difficult to print. Plus the old ones are a bear to get on a reel.

kb244 · Mar 14, 2007

Chaska said:
I have used HC110 dilB for 7 minutes 4 times for found film the results as follows:
1. 122 Verichrome from the 50's: Old pictures were not there but te 3 I took to finish the roll came out
2. 105 Verichrome from the 20's (?): completely blank

Um... Veirchrome is traditional B&W that is Orthochromatic prior to Verichrome Pan with ISO speeds of about 125, I've developed old exposed rolls of Vericrhome pan from the late 40s and HC-110 Dil.B and did so under a safeligt so I can watch it as it came in (since it's not panchromatic like the later version).

In essence it is not C-22 Color.

Also seems I noticed this topic came back to life after I posted it ever so long ago. I have developed C-22 in HC-110 in high temperature and have yielded a roll of images, I can't remember how long or how hot ( I think 85F, 14 minutes ).

Though I never thought to try Dektol which I have, so I should give that a try with another of the exposed old rolls of C-22 I Got laying around and see what happens.

sjperry · Mar 24, 2007

A little further info on this subject. I picked up an old roll of exposed 620 color film at an estate sale recently. I got it mainly for the metal 620 spool. This Kodacolor was for the C-22 process and I would guess dated to the 60's or 70's, and had peobably been exposed then! I decided what the heck, develop the film in D-76 (which I have on hand) and see what develops (bad pun intended). Using suggestions made in this discussion I developed it assuming Tri-X pushed about two stops. I think that was about 13 min. Actually I was rather surprised to discernable images on this old film. As could be expected these weren't very notable - probably old vacation shots. The orange coloration is rather bad. I didn't have any C-41 chemicals, or I could have tried using these subsequent to the D-76. Interesting that the film had not deteriorated, or that light really hadn't leaked into the rolled up film. Apparently just in a drawer, with the little tape holding it tight.

pentaxuser · Mar 24, 2007

This is a very long shot. I use a developer called Celer-41. It is supplied by Silverprint in the UK and produced by Speedibrews. In the instructions the author and maker of Celer-41 talks about C-22 films. This developer can develop C-22 as colour. If it fails to do the job properly because of C-22 films age then the author says that the negs can at least be printed as B&W.

So you may get colour neg frames which are capable of colour printing and B&W and if not can at least be printed as B&W. I have had some recent success printing with 35yr old Kodak colour negs in B&W which are beginning to look decidely difficult to print as colour due to dye changes. Early 1970s basic Kodak colour neg films are beginning top show their age. Neither exposure(mine) nor mini-lab processing were ideal then and storage has been far from ideal.

The big issue is: Will Silverprint, based in London, export and will the cost be justified?

I don't know. If you are interested in what Speedibrews have to say about processing C-22 then pm me. Silverprint is an APUG sponsor who have a link to Speedibrews but the link doesn't give the Speedibrews instructions which I have.

You could cut out the middleman(me) and contact Silverprint direct but maybe I can tell you what Speedibrews have to say quicker and cheaper. You can then take it from there.

pentaxuser

Photo Engineer · Mar 24, 2007

You might better want a C-22 work alike formula pentax. In any event, you will need a stop, bleach, fix and etc..

Here goes.

1. Developer, use a C41 developer formula, but replace the CD4 with CD3 at the same molar concentration and add 5 ml/l of benzyl alcohol. The pH should be 10.5

2. Stop is 2% acetic acid.

3. Fix is KRLF with hardener

4. Bleach is any good rehal ferricyanide bleach with KBr or NaBr in it

5. Fix is KRLF with hardener

6. Stabilzer is photo flo at normal concentration plus 5 ml/l of 37% formalin.

That should give you a good starting point.

Develop about 20 mins at 75 deg F, stop 2', wash 2', fix 5', wash 5', bleach 10', wash 10', fix 10', wash 10', stab 1'. That should do it for a rough starting point if anyone is interested.

I can look up more details if you wish, but personally I think it is futile.

PE

Developing C-22 in B&W

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