Developing B&W Without a darkroom

Help please

I know it is possible to develop B&W without a darkroom setup using a changing bag. In fact in the UK, the latest 'Amateur Photographer' sets out the procedure. However, I would much rather get feedback from this forum on the pitfalls, the steepness of the learning curve, the disadvantages against a darkroom setup etc.

I don't mind wasting film, learning, but would really appreciate feedback with concerning if I would be better off trying 120 first, or 35mm, what chemicals to use as a complete beginner. Jessops UK suggested using a powder, for what I cannot remember. It all seems a bit daunting, but I trust I will manage eventually.

My intention is to scan both the 120 and 35mm negs on dedicated film scanner I already own. I am relatively proficient on my scanning technique with colour slides, but do not know how B&W will differ. My major concern is wither a non darkroom development process will allow me to be as flexible as I might need to be.

Any suggestions, other than ‘set up a darkroom’ would be appreciated.


Thanks in advance


Darryl

If you are not going to be making prints, I fail to see why you would need to use anything other than a changing bag to transfer film to a developing tank. What sort of other flexibility are you refering to? Whether you can setup a temporary darkroom depends on whether you have a room that can be made light tight.

I think you can do it without a darkroom. You do need running water though.
It is really easy to make a darkroom though. Just find a room with no windows and put some towels under the door. Or buy a roll of black gaffer's tape. There are lots of ways to make a room light tight temporarily.

I would start with liquid chemicals like those that Ilford sells. Discard them when done.

Loading the canister in the changing bag is about the same as loading it in the dark. You just have to make sure that if you are doign 35mm that you don't accidentally clip the bag with the scissors when you cut off the ends of the film. And your hands will sometimes get sweaty, which is a pain.

Also, I've heard that the plastic reels are easy to load, but I think the steel reels for 35mm with the little prongs (not the springs) are the easiest to load. And they last a long time. The procedure for loading a steel reel is different than for a plastic, so make sure the instructions you have specify.

Also, do all of your loading with trash/expired film in the daylight first. Then practice with your eyes closed. Then practice in the bag. Once you can do it OK (about 5 or 6 tries probably) in the bag you are ready to try a real roll. Sometimes your camera store will give you an expired roll for free if you ask. They will probably show you how to load the reel when you buy it from them too.

DON'T PANIC

Last bit of advice. You don't need washaid or stop bath. Just use water for the stop. And wash long enough for the dye on the film (especially if tmax or fp4) to be gone. Usually 10 minutes at least. Dump the tank a lot.

Ilford has great instructions on all of this on their website. Of course, they say buy acid stop and washaid.

I think 120 is easier just because it is bigger, but both are easily doable.

Good luck,

Will

I agree that the only real downside to using a changing bag is the tendency for hands to get sweaty, along with the restricted space. Note that this assumes the changing bag is of the "tent" variety, or that you've made it a tent with some form of internal support structure (plastic pipe, tinker toys, whatever).

For 35mm stainless steel tanks, the Hewes reels (available from Calumet, etc.) are the best, and will eliminate most loading problems encountered with the center-clip style reels.

Darryl, I think Will has a good handle on the changing bag method. In fact, I started much the same way as you are thinking. My "darkroom" is a carpeted room with no water. I use it as my office and turn out the overhead light and turn on my lamp with red bulb and Presto! I'm in the Darkroom with an office table, some thick towels in case of spills and my 4 trays and I'm printing 8X10's. Prints are washed in the bath room across the hall. A large well equiped darkroom is great to have, but not the only way!

Don't let anything stop you now!


Bill

Darryl,

The key to all this is that once you have loaded the film into the tank you can carry out the rest of the procedure in daylight. Therefore you can use any room that has running water to devlop the film, en-suite, bathroom, kitchen etc.

If you wish me to act as your mentor then please feel free to pm me and I will advise you all the way down the line.

I would just add that you will need very little equipment and what you do need can all be picked up on ebay. I have a few spare tanks and other bits and pieces that you can have for free. In fact I can probably kit you out with everything except a changing bag.

Best regards Mike

I gave up the changing bag years ago...
I prefer loading the film in the reels in a bathroom, with the lights off.

I've been doing darkroomless film processing for several months now, since I'm between darkrooms. My recipe is to use a changing bag to load up, then process in Diafine, do a couple of water rinses, fix (fixer choice is irrelevant, but I use TF-4 'cause I like having an alkali line). I've recently started washing film (there was a url link here which no longer exists), which requires no running water, and it seems to work great.

For drying the film, I use a wetting agent of dilute photo flo with some isopropyl alchohol thrown in and dry my film in the dryer pictured below and described here. It's the most dustless I've been yet. Eventually, when I get back into 4x5, I'll invest in some 4x5 reels solely so I can dry my sheet film in this dryer.

I use diafine because I've yet to find a film that it won't process. As a rule, I run Tri-X exposed at EI 400 (even though the box says 1600 and folks say 1200), but I've run Plus-X, HP5, FP4 and they all use the same development time (I use 4mins each of A and B with a sharp rap of the tank at the start of B followed by a minute of no agitation, but the box says 3min) and temperature isn't important within reason. hell, we even experimented and got some dollar-a-roll cheap color (C-41) film at Walgreens and ran it and got slightly more grainy b&W negs (probably overexposing a stop and shooting at 200 would help there).

Diafine is a use-it-until-it's-sludge-then-use-it-some-more developer. We just keep pouring it back in the bottles, and the only developer that goes away is that which either spills over the top of the tank when filling or soaks into the emulsion when processing. I've read of folks using the same blackened, sludgy diafine for a year or more.

We just keep our processing bottles at the back of a kitchen counter and basically we can process film at the drop of a hat with no darkroom. Next road trip, I'll downsize the setup to a dairy crate and some mason jars and make a mini-dryer that'll only do 3-4 reels (so it doesn't look like i"m sneaking a bazooka into the motel) and I'll be able to process each day's film during the vacation -- maybe even do POP contacts.

-KwM-

OK, since you're not planning to make prints the old fashioned way with an enlarger; there's really no need for a darkroom at all. A changing bag, or preferably a changing tent like Photoflex Film Changing Room because it has more room and is self supporting, will do just fine. I can't think of a good reason not to go this route. All you really need is a dark space to load the your developing tank.

It doesn't really matter which film format you decide to try first. Pick a format and have at it. I should warn you that loading 120 film, because of its thinner support, is a little bit more difficult than loading 35mm film at first. You'll soon get the hang of it in either case and the procedure will become second nature. It's like riding a bicycle. Once you get it, you never forget.

A word about reels and tanks. There is a body of users who swear by stainless steel tanks and reels and another body who swears by the plastic variety. I have a collection of these things that I've gathered over the years and both systems are good. Each has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Stainless steel tank and reel systems' main advantages over the plastic variety are that they use a little bit less chemistry and can offer somewhat easier temperature control because of the steel's naturally higher conductivity. Their main disadvantage is that the reels are a bit more difficult to load and the tanks have a longer fill and drain time. Plastic tank and reel systems, with their automatic loading feature, are easy to load correctly the first time, and have very fast fill and drain times. I use both systems. My plastic tanks hold a maximum of 2 reels with 35mm film or 1 with 120 film, while the steel tanks hold up to 4 reels with 35mm film or two with 120 film. Pay no attention to anyone who tells you you can't get get good results with either system. Both work, and work well once you get used to their individual characteristics. If you like the stainless steel tanks and reels, then DO NOT get cheap reels. They will only frustrate you. The best are made by Hewes. They are expensive, I paid $25 each new in NYC, but will last a lifetime. I do not recommend used SS reels. You don't know if they've been dropped or otherwise damaged. Once they are knocked out of alignment, they will never load properly again.

Chemistry, now there's another religion altogether. Zealots are a dime a dozen in this camp. For starters you have the liquid vs. powdered camp. Then there are the "pyro" maniacs, the "mad scientist" DIY types who like to mix up their stuff from scratch, the "Rodinal is the exlir from the gods" bunch; along with a host of others. Been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt. Overall the best results I've seen come from the following 4 developers: D-76, ID-11, XTOL, and Microphen. Pick one, use it, and learn how to get the best from the film you use with it. D-76 and ID-11 are essentially the same thing, good general purpose developers that will work well with any film you throw at it. XTOL and Microphen, while not as closely related as are D-76 and ID-11, provide similar results and a bit more effective film speed. Personally, I prefer powdered developers. First, they are more economical. The main ingredient in most liquid developers is water. Water is heavy and takes up a lot of space. You need to ship that water and that costs money. Then there is the question of longevity. Any developer that is mixed with water will degrade faster than a dry powdered version. You don't know how long that bottle of liquid concentrate developer has been on the store's shelf. Once you open that bottle of concentrate, its shelf life shortens dramatically.

Acid stop baths are another bone of contention. Some say that an acid stop bath can damage your film. I'm not convinced. I've developed a LOT of film. I have filing cabinets full of negatives dating back to the mid 1960's. Want to know how many have been damaged because I used an acid stop bath? None, zero, nada! Want to know how many are stained because I did not use an acid stop bath and wasn't too careful about washing out ALL the developer before the fix went in? More than I'd care to think about.

Fixing baths are the exception when it comes to the powdered vs. liquid concentrate debate. Ammonium thiosulfate rapid fixers really do work a lot faster than the sodium thoisulfate types and generally don't contain hardeners which you don't need and don't really want. Unfortunately, you can't get these as powder. Typical dilutions are 1+4 for film and 1+9 for paper. At 1+4 the fixing capacity of 1L is well over 10 rolls of film, so it's relatively cheap stuff to use. All brands are pretty much the same with these products, so look for the best price and use that one.

Wash aids are optional for film, and practically indispensable for fiber based papers. They do shorten wash times appreciably and are very good at getting the magenta dyes out of Kodak's TMax films and possibly some others. Finally you should get some sort of wetting agent like Edwal's LFN or Kodak's Photoflo as a drying aid. These products, when used properly, will prevent water marks on your negatives by causing the water to sheet off the film, rather than forming droplets which can leave spots behind.

Lyrrad said:

I know it is possible to develop B&W without a darkroom setup using a changing bag. In fact in the UK, the latest 'Amateur Photographer' sets out the procedure. However, I would much rather get feedback from this forum on the pitfalls, the steepness of the learning curve, the disadvantages against a darkroom setup etc.

Click to expand...

I do exactly what you propose, and it works just fine. I would advise consulting the instructional PDFs on the Ilford web site for information -- they're well-written -- and stick to Ilford chemistry (so that others can more easily help you out in case of problems). Practice loading the reel with the lights on (outside of the changing bag) until you're good at it.

You should have no problems with a no darkroom and a changing bag. In fact there are some tanks around that don't even require a changing bag (old Agfa Rondinax tanks for example). You don't even need running water, but it does help. I develop without a darkroom, and haven't lost a roll yet!

Starting with 35mm or 120: The only "reel" difference is loading the film, as with 120 you have to separate the backing paper from the film. The rest of the process is the same.

Developer: This can come down to a religious argument, but choose a common one that you can get hold of easily. As a relative newby, I'd recommend a liquid concentrate "one shot" developer first. It is much easier to get consistent results, and it removes a potention source of problems (developer going off). Examples are HC110 or Rodinal (or one of the Rodinal clones) - these last for a long, long time in concentrate form. An exception to this is Diafine (mentioned previously), which you re-use and lasts forever. For the other chemicals (stop, fixer, wash-aid) the choice is less critical.

For washing the film, look up the Ilford washing method (I think someone has provided a link in a previous response). You can hang the film to dry in the bathroom - just run the shower until it creates some steam, then hang the film, this helps ensure dust free negatives.

Changing bag: Get the biggest one

Developing Tank: You can pick up developing tanks very cheaply off the auciton site. Whether you go Stainless Steel or plastic is your choice. I use a SS tank & reel for 35mm and plastic for 120.

I'd give Dead Link Removed a phone and have a chat to them regarding B+W chemicals and film supplies. They are friendly and knowledgeable, with excellent service.

Others have done a good job explaining the basics. I particularly agree with most of what fschifano wrote, although I've never used Microphen and so can't comment on that, and I'm more neutral on the powder-versus-liquid issue than is fschifano. I'd add that you might want to stick to one supplier for all the major chemicals at first, simply because that'll minimize the chance that you'll encounter contradictory instructions or get into a tech-support finger-pointing contest if things go wrong and you call the manufacturer for help.

One other point is that you may not need a changing bag. If you've got a dark room (note: two words, as in a room that is dark; rather than a darkroom, which is the whole thing with enlarger, etc.) you can load your reels there. Even a closet will do fine, so long as it's big enough for you, your film, and your film tank. Many windowless rooms can be made completely dark by closing the door and putting a towel, shirt, etc. at the bottom of the door. Turning off the lights in the room or corridor outside the darkened room can help, too. You may find this approach more convenient than working with a changing bag. It's cheaper, too, although in the long run you might want to buy a changing bag anyway, for use in emergencies (camera problems in the field, say).

Likewise, although running water is helpful, it's not absolutely required. Without running water, you'll need a fairly large supply of water in bottles or whatever and someplace to put used water. Given the ubiquity of indoor plumbing, though, you might as well use your bathroom or kitchen and take advantage of the running water you've got there. (Just be sure to keep your film processing supplies well separated from your foodstuffs if you use your kitchen, and clean up thoroughly after doing film processing.)

I'd also like to say that there are lots of Web sites with basic information on doing B&W film development. I'd provide some URLs, but I lost the references to the ones I used when I was starting out in a disk crash. Try doing a Google (or whatever) search on "home B&W film processing" or something similar. I have yet to see a page that'll lead you too far astray. Be aware that, as others have noted, certain choices are just that -- choices, to be made by the individual. One Web page, book, or whatever may teach one method and another may teach another method. Don't get too hung up on these differences; just pick one method and stick with it until you understand it. Then you can change if you decide another method is better.

Pop along to the Ilford site here: (http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/bw.html) and download the PDF document called " PROCESSING YOUR FIRST B&W FILM". It details everything you need to know in terms of... well... processing film... It does assume a darkroom (or at least somewhere you can black out) to load the daylight tank with your film, but you can just load the tank inside a changing bag instead.

Sacrifice a roll of film to practising loading the reel with film before trying it for real. The important things to watch are the temperature of the developer and the amount of time for which the film is in the developer. The stop bath and fixer times can be longer than that suggested with no ill effects (more than twice as long) and the temperature should be close to that of the developer (within a few degrees C) but does not have to be exact.

Note that being 1/2 a degree C out, or 30 seconds late pouring the developer out will not mean disaster by any means, but it will make repeating your results impossible unless you stick as closely to the same time and temperature every time you develop film.

Have fun! Bob.

Just a changing bag advice: if by any means you have the chance to find a used one with a fine, breathable mesh inside, buy it above any other nylon crap they sell nowadays. I used to have a nylon-lined one, but once I discovered that older model in the pile of darkroom stuff my uncle left me, I never looked back. Incidentally, the good one was made in Japan, while the crappy one was made in China. I've never broken a sweat in my changing bag since.