Developing B&W Film is An Exact (Or Inexact) Art

cliveh · Dec 18, 2014

P.E. what is your opinion about using only de-ionised water after film washing?

Photo Engineer · Dec 18, 2014

Do not use Photo Flo in any dishwasher. It is not designed for this sort of purpose.

DI water is fine if it leaves no water spots, but sometimes the spots do form even with DI or DW. It depends on the film and the surface's ability to repel water. I have seen large water drops that dry down and leave no residue, but do leave wrinkle marks in the film where the drop dried. The film is distorted. Photo Flo and other post wash chemicals are designed to spread any water out and prevent this problem.

So, look for these dry down wrinkles in your film and if you have them then you are having a problem even with DI water and should use a surfactant to fix the problem.

PE

NB23 · Dec 18, 2014

PE,
Yeah, after all 5000 rolls isn't that much. But that's pretty much my count. I'm counting on shooting another 10,000 at least.

But let me tell you, 100 rolls from a good trip can get me busy in the darkroom for at least 3 full months of high quality printing. 100-150 20x24 fb sheets, 150 16x20 fb sheets, a few boxes of 11x14 and 8x10 sheets.
In my case, it's extra serious stuff. Last year I was starting to hurt my health badly when I cut on sleep in order to have more time in the darkroom. Lasted 3 years like that. I'm now back to normal (somewhat).

To get back on the photoflo topic, i stopped premixing gallons of the stuff when i saw the viscous stuff appearing and floating. I then when the simplest and best route: 2-3 drops in the tank directly, agitations and voila. No squeegee, only dry. Never a drying mark.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 19, 2014

creating the perfect negative is a science;creating the perfect print is an art

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 20, 2014

RalphLambrecht said:
creating the perfect negative is a science;creating the perfect print is an art

That's a really good way of looking at it, Ralph.

scheimfluger_77 · Dec 20, 2014

Truzi said:
I have to wonder if Photo Flo would help in the dishwasher - we always have spots on our glasses, regardless of what detergent we use.

I've discovered a fix for this. I put no more than 1/4 to 1/2 oz. of Jet dri in the bottom of the dishwasher, which means the first cycle only gets the benefit. I don't put anything in the dispenser designed for this. Everything washes very nicely now. I had to cut way back on the amt. of DW soap/detergent I was using too. I was overdoing it.

If dish soap is bad to clean your tanks and reels with, what does one use?

bdial · Dec 20, 2014

scheimfluger_77 said:
...If dish soap is bad to clean your tanks and reels with, what does one use?

Hot water is all I've ever used. On rare occasions, sometimes with the help of a very fine Scotch-brite pad.

cjbecker · Dec 20, 2014

All I've ever done is simply rinse in the 75 degree tap water after the photo-flo. The plastic reels and tanks got gummy but my SS ones have been going strong for a long time.

Truzi · Dec 20, 2014

My comment about the dishwasher was a joke (I'd forgotten to add a smiley). I'd not do it because I don't know if Photo Flo would be bad regarding trace amounts of residue, but it would be interesting.

I wash my tanks and reels with hot water, immediately after use. On the occasion I actually use a soap, I will use dish detergent, or Formula 409, but I then soak and rinse the hell out of them.

Photo Engineer · Dec 20, 2014

Washing tanks and reels right after use with hot water (40C or 100F) and using a stiff brush will do the job you need.

PE

Joe VanCleave · Dec 20, 2014

What I start with is one shot glass of Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin, two shots of tonic water and 1/4 fresh lime squeezed and dropped into the solution. Prefer to use heavy cut-crystal drinking glass. Gently stirred, then two ice cubes added to complete the process. Gently titrate over a period of half an hour, sitting only, no standing or semi-standing recommended. If processing doesn't take, mix and repeat.

Optional: Add one maduro-wrapped, toro-sized cigar.

~Joe

Sirius Glass · Dec 20, 2014

Joe VanCleave said:
What I start with is one shot glass of Bombay Blue Sapphire Gin, two shots of tonic water and 1/4 fresh lime squeezed and dropped into the solution. Prefer to use heavy cut-crystal drinking glass. Gently stirred, then two ice cubes added to complete the process. Gently titrate over a period of half an hour, sitting only, no standing or semi-standing recommended. If processing doesn't take, mix and repeat.

Optional: Add one maduro-wrapped, toro-sized cigar.

~Joe

Soon you may be able to legally enjoy a Cuban cigar.

Photo Engineer · Dec 20, 2014

Be careful, the oils in the lime juice may cause water spots.

PE

MattKing · Dec 20, 2014

Photo Engineer said:
Be careful, the oils in the lime juice may cause water spots.

PE

Clearly, the voice of experience .

StoneNYC · Dec 20, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
Soon you may be able to legally enjoy a Cuban cigar.

Good, that will mean more money for Connecticut farmers again. Since the embargo, Cuban cigars aren't as good, little known fact, the secret to a good cigar isn't just the Cuban grown center tobacco, but the CONNECTICUT grown tobacco wrap.

removed account4 · Dec 20, 2014

momus said:
After miscalculating my chemical amounts w/ my last batch of fixer, I was ready to screw up some developing, and it didn't take long. Whilst developing the film I lost track of the time on the clock and couldn't figure out whether I had developed it for 11 minutes, which was the scheme, or for 12. So I pulled the roll out and fixed it w/ my miscalculated fixer (just gave it extra time). Slid the hose into the Paterson tank, and let the water run for 40 minutes, which is what I'm used to w/ Tri-X to get the purple out.

However, I had turned the hot water on, not the cold. It had washed for 40 minutes in 120-130 degree water! Pulled the film out and it looked pretty good, considering that this Shanghai film has a very fragile emulsion. Hung it up to dry and noticed that the water on the negs looked odd. Well, I had forgotten to use the photo flo. Tried to put the wet film back on the plastic reel, which was a disaster. After getting hung up about half way through I had to rip it out of the reel. Ended up just pouring the photo flo solution into the open tank and dipping the film into that, which worked surprisingly well. I'm amazed there is anything left on the film after a 40 minute hot water bath.

So here it is. Argoflex TLR w/ a yellow filter, Shanghai GP3 Pan 100 developed for 11 minutes (or 12, maybe) in full strength Microdol-X. The negs are a little thin but look good. These were shot on a real cloudy, grey day, and this is probably a developer for bright, contrasty days. Not the sharpest developer under these conditions, and I didn't help anything w/ my lack of expertise, but it has beautiful tones and really tight grain.

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you have realized something that a lot of people don't want to believe. film and paper and chemistry are forgiving.
developing images on film isn't hard, and you can do just about anything to get images
there is a guy on flickr who develops his film in PEEro, i'll let you figure out what that is on your own.

since you now now the secret .. don't forget to have a good time,

blockend · Dec 22, 2014

For cleaning inside plastic water bottles, the usual suggestion is a solution of sodium bicarbonate left over night. I haven't tried it for plastic film spirals, but can't see why it wouldn't remove grime and scale. It's available in any supermarket, and cheap.

Re. photoflo, I use a single drop of hair shampoo and vigorously agitate the spirals. Use too much and you'll get foam and residue on the film, about the head of a pin size is right. I've used this method for years without obvious ill effects.

pdeeh · Dec 22, 2014

And does it leave your films glossy, sleek and manageable? ... because you're worth it

blockend · Dec 22, 2014

Shampoo is not something I require any more...sadly. A good polish, maybe.

Photo Engineer · Dec 22, 2014

blockend said:
For cleaning inside plastic water bottles, the usual suggestion is a solution of sodium bicarbonate left over night. I haven't tried it for plastic film spirals, but can't see why it wouldn't remove grime and scale. It's available in any supermarket, and cheap.

Re. photoflo, I use a single drop of hair shampoo and vigorously agitate the spirals. Use too much and you'll get foam and residue on the film, about the head of a pin size is right. I've used this method for years without obvious ill effects.

Commercial shampoos contain dye, fragrance and selenium (as found in toners). Take care in what these chemicals do when left on your film.

PE

Sirius Glass · Dec 22, 2014

blockend said:
Re. photoflo, I use a single drop of hair shampoo and vigorously agitate the spirals. Use too much and you'll get foam and residue on the film, about the head of a pin size is right. I've used this method for years without obvious ill effects.

Does it remove the curl?

Paul645 · Mar 22, 2023

Thanks PE for your information on surfactants in this and other threads. Since reading your advice I'm using a surfactant as per the manufacturers instructions and i have much cleaner, flatter negatives.

Developing B&W Film is An Exact (Or Inexact) Art

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