Developing B&W Film in Print Developer

Steve@f8 · Jul 18, 2021

I’m told the process of using print developer is good for accentuating the grain in film development, is that so?

Any resources available for dilutions, temperature, times and agitation would be more than welcome. Or personal experiences of course.

If anyone has sample images, eg scans, it would be helpful.

Thanks.

removed account4 · Jul 18, 2021

Hi Steve
People often say that using print developer accentuates the grain of film, but I have not found the to be as true as people suggest. I've been processing my film in one sort of print developer or another ( GAF Universal, Ansco(PF) 130 and Dektol (D72 ) since the 1990s and in my experience it does not make golf balled size grain &c that is usually claimed, maybe I'm doing it wrong? The typical time and dilution numbers are 1:5 ( or 6 or 10 or ... ) for 5 ( or 6 or 10 ) minutes. &c ( 1: Dilution) for Dilution(minutes). I don't have experience with other print developers so some may be more active and more grain on film than others, I don't think so. it has more to do with small negative and enlargement than anything else.
Good luck!
John

Paul Howell · Jul 18, 2021

Most of the properties of a given film are baked in, developers enhance one characteristic over another. Many people use paper developers with good effect, my experience has been that papers developers produce too much contrast, the grain does show more than I like. The Massive Development chart list times for Dektol and various films, that should give you a starting point.

https://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=&Developer=Dektol%&mdc=Search&TempUnits=C&TimeUnits=D

pentaxuser · Jul 18, 2021

I think there will be very few here who do this but you never know. However if your thread produces only a few replies from those who have actually done this then the MDC gives times for films with Ilford PQ Universal. There are times for Dektol as well but in the U.K. PQ Universal may be easier to obtain

Let us see examples if you give it a go. Thanks

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 18, 2021

I've certainly not seen an increase in grain when I develop HP5 in Ilford MG diluted at 1+49.

Doremus Scudder · Jul 18, 2021

Want grain?

Use small, fast, conventional film, overdevelop in a non-sulfite developer like Rodinal (or print developer), enlarge greatly. This latter makes the biggest difference.

Doremus

Steve@f8 · Jul 19, 2021

Thanks guys.
I think on balance of what’s been said in the replies it’s certainly possible to develop in print developer, but grain enhancement isn’t guaranteed. Rodinal keeps getting positive recommendations so I think I’ll try this first.
Thanks once again
Steve

radiant · Jul 19, 2021

As contrast in film means you get less of areas where grains have space between does these "contrasty" developers just clump the grains more?

tezzasmall · Jul 19, 2021

I too wanted to find a way to enlarge the grain on HP5+ film, and I too was led to believe that print developer would do it. Wrong!!!

I used Ilford MG developer @ 1:9 and the film developed in just one minute at 20C!

Slight grain, a little more contrast, but surprisingly easy negatives to enlarge.

Having done more reading, higher magnification of a (very) small part of a negative is the best way to get the grain, if that's what you are after?

Terry S

Steve@f8 · Jul 19, 2021

tezzasmall said:
I too wanted to find a way to enlarge the grain on HP5+ film, and I too was led to believe that print developer would do it. Wrong!!!

I used Ilford MG developer @ 1:9 and the film developed in just one minute at 20C!

Slight grain, a little more contrast, but surprisingly easy negatives to enlarge.

Having done more reading, higher magnification of a (very) small part of a negative is the best way to get the grain, if that's what you are after?

Terry S

I have a 1/2 frame Pen FT but keep forgetting to use it as much as I should. Id like to get the grain sorted so I can use my FF cameras for various reasons, eg lens choice, and I’m leaning to Rodinal, maybe 30C. But what dilution? From memory 1:25 sounds favourite.

cjbecker · Jul 19, 2021

I used 130 at 1-10 for a long time for all film. Big grain was not something it gave. EXCELLENT developer, for both paper and film.

gone · Jul 19, 2021

Grain enhancement = Rodinal and Tri-X. That's my route. I know that people have used Dektol, but I'm perfectly happy w/ the look that Rodinal gives. But, that's just me. Try the Dektol and see what happens.

Bill Burk · Jul 19, 2021

Steve@f8 said:
I have a 1/2 frame Pen FT but keep forgetting to use it as much as I should. Id like to get the grain sorted so I can use my FF cameras for various reasons, eg lens choice, and I’m leaning to Rodinal, maybe 30C. But what dilution? From memory 1:25 sounds favourite.

That Pen FT and a fast 3200 film will get you there.
Any developer you want, I would choose developer concentration mostly for the time. Longer time gives more even development.

Donald Qualls · Jul 19, 2021

Dektol/D-72 has been a "universal" developer since it was introduced (before WWII). Essentially the same stuff was sold by Kodak as "MQ Universal" developer in single-use packets as recently as the 1960s (I used it the first time I developed film without supervision, at age 10). As with most universal developers, you use different dilutions for film (1+9 for Dektol) compared to prints (1+2 or 1+3). In my experience (as recently as last year), Dektol does a fine job, and doesn't "accentuate" grain -- although, like Rodinal, neither does it reduce the appearance of grain the way D-76 or Xtol would.

foc · Jul 19, 2021

A long time ago I remember working in a wholesale lab that had a handline for B&W film developing. Ilford PQ Universal was used in a replenished system. I can't remember the delutions but we kept a log of all that info at the time. (it could have been 1+9 or 1+19) I do remember that it was one time for all films, 8 mins at 20C.
It worked a treat back then, 40 years ago ! !

radiant · Jul 19, 2021

Sorry I repeat my question. But what really happens in these grain enhanching methods? Do the grains become more clumpy? I think typically we call it grain but what we are meaning with "grain" is the negative space between grain clumps. That is what I have observed. The magnification must be really huge to see actual grains. For example Epson flatbeds at 1200 dpi is unable to separate grains, it isn't even near.

That is why I'm after this "clumpy" theory.

Donald Qualls · Jul 19, 2021

Well, yes, from what I understand, actual grain size is micron scale or smaller (small enough that in prints that's what determines warm or cold tone, due to interference of light waves). And what shows as a black "grain" in the positive is actually a clear space between silver regions in the negative.

reddesert · Jul 19, 2021

We don't see individual light sensitive grains. As the film is developed, individual sensitized grains react with the developer and the reaction expands to nearby grains - this is typically called grain clumping, although I don't think any grains/clumps actually physically move during the process. What we see are aggregates of developed material. These can be enhanced by edge effects etc. The choice of developer affects this process of aggregation and other aspects that make the grains visible, like the edge effects. Here is an interesting post by Photo Engineer / Ron Mowrey (RIP) on the appearance of "grain clumping": https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/grain-clumping-a-controversial-issue.70138/

Pioneer · Jul 19, 2021

One really dependable way to increase the grain in your negatives is to under expose and over develop. You don't even have to change developers.

Paul Howell · Jul 19, 2021

As I recall the universal developers were popular in the 30s and 40s, maybe into the 60s with box type cameras, 6X9 and larger roll film that contact printed. MF negative, now contrast contact papers making smallish prints, universal developer for both and film and paper worked well.

If you really want grain, use a point source enlarger. I made a point source from an old Federal, 6X9 double condenser, used a halogen light, had a lamp shop add a dimmer light switch, I used the Federal as I could raise and lower the lamp, could not move side by side, but it worked. My thought was to print my negatives from the 60s and early 70s with high contrast, the grain was really noticeable and unpleasant. I gifted to a friends who still uses it on occasion.

Developing B&W Film in Print Developer

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