Developing Agfa APX 400 in Adox Adonal

Hi! As far as I read, Adox Adonal is the equivalent for Rodinal.

The problem is that on the bottle it's written that you should use 1 + 25 dilution (which is kinda concentrated, and I assume that the more concentrated your solution is, the shorter the developing time is) at 20 degrees for 6-9 min.

This does not correspond with the developing times on digitaltruth's devchart that most of us use. For the first film I developed, I used 11 min developing time bc I messed up the ISO on my camera (I used push&pull) and it went alright, but still a little too dark and grainy.

The last time I tried the developing times on devchart, I found out that 11 min 30 s was too much for developing my film (it came out totally black and I'm sure I didn't exposed the film before or mixed up the developer with the fixer), but I didn't find any youtube video to answer my existential questions.

So is there anybody using Adonal as a developer that could clarify these little things, please? Thank you in advance!

P.S. I found some info chart for agfa photo film, where they recommend using 7 min developing time, but as far as I know there are more than one type of APX 400 film (I have the regular APX 400 film, whose box isn't marked up with "new elmusion"). I attached the AGFA recommendations and devchart's recommendations.

If the difference you got between 11 minutes and 11:30 was the difference between thin negatives and pure black, then I can assure you that you made one or more mistakes elsewhere.

In fact, your pure black negatives suggest that you do have a severe fogging problem on that roll - assuming you mean the negatives are black, not the prints/scans (positives). Is the entire roll black, or are the edges around the sprocket holes clear? What does the edge printing look like?

miruntel said:

I found some info chart for agfa photo film

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Keep in mind that there used to be APX 400 made by Agfa, and now there's the current APX 400 that's probably made by Harman (but I'm sure someone will correct me on this). Both films are likely different. Maybe very, very different, especially in the development they require.

miruntel said:

I have the regular APX 400 film

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You mean film that's several decades old? In that case that would explain the dark frames at least to a large extent. I wouldn't expect original APX400 to be very useful today, even if it was cold stored. 400 film doesn't age well and Agfa's glory days are looooong ago.

So:
* Determine which film(s) you're using and how old they are. If old (let's say >5 years), try fresh film.
* APX 400 is not APX 400. Age, and especially manufacturer, matters.
* Analyze what went wrong with your 'black' roll to see what the probable causes are
* Keep in mind that if a film is supposed to be developed for 11 minutes and you soup it for 7 minutes, you'll get thin negatives, but there will be a distinct image (it may not be a very good one). Conversely, if it's supposed to be 7 and you gave 11, then the negatives will be way contrasty, but certainly not entirely black.

miruntel said:

So is there anybody using Adonal as a developer

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I think I still must have a remnant somewhere, but I stopped using it quite some time ago. While it'll work 'OK' for 400 speed film, it wouldn't be my developer of choice for this. Some are likely to disagree, probably vehemently, but in general, fast films and rodinal/adonal/etc. are for most people not a match made in heaven.

APX 400 (old) should be 7 minutes as a starting point @ 1+25. Personally I preferred 1+50. If this is Agfa (not Agfaphoto) APX 400, then it is quite old, likely expired prior to 2006ish. My rolls I have left of the APX 400 have heavy base fog, in fact, its not really usable. These have been stored in freezer since I rolled them from bulk in 2006. So that may be where your "black film" comes from. Overdevelopment + base fog.
Try 10-11 minutes at 1+50, see if the base fog is low enough to be usable. Seems a shame to waste it if you have several rolls of it.

There is Agfa APX, which last was made in 2005.

There is AgfaPhoto APX, currently made by Harman (IlfordPhoto).

Chances are you have Agfaphoto APX 400, the new stuff, not the old agfa APX 400. The "new emulsion" marking is not on the box anymore.

Datasheet say 11.5min at EI 320 in rodinal 1:25. With agfaphoto APX 100 & 400, it's easier to search online with "kentmere" as it's the same films, are more common, and it avoid the confusion with the olds agfa film when you dig up forum posts from the early 2000's.

It's a good film, I've been very pleased with my recent results in xtol. I wouldn't soup it in rodinal because of the grain and loss of speed, but that's personnal preferences.

Thank you for your responses! I tried using 1+25 for 7 min. The results aren't the best, it's true. It's kinda grainy to me, but it seems ok though. I think that 11 min it's too much for me; maybe next time I'll try 1+50 or 1+100 dilution to see what happens. As far as other options of developers, I don't have many in my country, so here I am...

miruntel said:

I don't have many in my country, so here I am...

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If you can get Adonal where you live, odds are you can get at least one other developer that performs better for high speed film.
There's always the option to make your own developer from chemicals you can buy online from within our outside your country.

koraks said:

If you can get Adonal where you live, odds are you can get at least one other developer that performs better for high speed film.
There's always the option to make your own developer from chemicals you can buy online from within our outside your country.

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I would also try Caffenol, but I don't know what to say about that ). Is it better than Rodinal? Is there always something better than Rodinal, actually? =)))

You'll have to ask people who like caffenol. I won't comment; I think coffee is made for drinking and I don't like developers that stink very very badly (in a literal sense).

Why not see if you can order some phenidone and some borax somewhere. Add some carbonate and vitamin C and you have an excellent XTOL clone very suitable for high speed films and also relatively non-toxic and environmentally friendly. Save the coffee for visitors.

koraks said:

Why not see if you can order some phenidone and some borax somewhere.

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Aren't they like insecticides? Are those environmental friendly? I don't know what to say.

Anyway, this is the result. I think I won't use Rodinal as developer for 400 ISO films anymore. Maybe I'll try with 100 ISO until I finish the bottle.

miruntel said:

Aren't they like insecticides?

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No, although you could use borax to kill ants. I don't think XTOL will be much more toxic than Adonal. Probably less, even.