Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

scott k · Jul 26, 2006

Ole,

I just can't figure out how to pull the two halves apart. Can you do that with all the Paterson reels or were some only made for 135?

Ole · Jul 26, 2006

All of mine (I have four, so they get dry when I'm processing the next batch) come apart.

Or do you turn the other way???

I just can't remember - I just do as I always do, and they come apart!

Hans Borjes · Jul 27, 2006

One aspect has not been mentioned so far. I am using Jobo 1520 tank and reel and 120 films. In the beginning I placed the emulsion to the innner side of the reel with the consequence that the (sharp!) inner end of the film scratched on the emulsion side of one frame.

Then I placed the film the other way around with the emulsion to the outer side of the reel with the consequence than upon removing the film stripes of emulsion get sheared from the edges and find its way onto the images.

Now I am playing with those developed test films that got never cut and mounted. I am about to try the following (which looks good with dry trial film): place the emulsion to the inside again but fold the first 5 mm of the film to the inside/emulsion side. This seems to give the beginning of the film a higher stability so that it hopefully cannot scratch on the next layer, and if it still can it will not be to the same extent and not as sharp as before.

How are you handling this with the newer Jobo reels?

poutnik · Jul 27, 2006

Hans Borjes said:
One aspect has not been mentioned so far. I am using Jobo 1520 tank and reel and 120 films. In the beginning I placed the emulsion to the innner side of the reel with the consequence that the (sharp!) inner end of the film scratched on the emulsion side of one frame.
....

Hans, I'm using the same jobo tank and reels and have never had such a problem. I always load the emulsion side inwards, feeding the film onto the reel while unrolling from the spool, always trying to hold only the edges of the film and not touch the surface. And never have I had any scratches on the film that I could attribute to the reels...

I think it's better to load the emulsion inwards because the film itself bends in the same direction as is the spirals'...

Jiri

Stan160 · Jul 27, 2006

Leon said:
I find 120 film to be a complete nightmare in hot and humid conditions. I always use the 2 films on a reel method too, so this makes it even more difficult, that along with only using dark-bags to load film and having naturally sweaty hands.

I can't load 120 film in a changing bag without a lot of frustration. It always gets stuck halfway so many times that by the time I've loaded it there are usually scratches on the film. Only been using 120 for the last few weeks so maybe it's the heat and humidity but the film gets so sticky it won't move around the spiral, one got so bad that the unloaded end of the film stuck to itself and ruined several frames.

I use my bathroom, which is luckily fairly easy to light-proof, and find that the film just slides onto to spirals without even having to rotate the reel until the very end.

kraker · Jul 27, 2006

scott k said:
I just can't figure out how to pull the two halves apart. Can you do that with all the Paterson reels or were some only made for 135?

Of the 2 Paterson reels I have, one came with my "35-mm-only"-tank, and I haven't succeeded in pulling that one apart. Maybe I should (also) try again, but then again: I'm suspecting that some were made only for 35 mm.

scott k · Jul 27, 2006

I got my Paterson tank used but it has the volume needed written on the bottom to develop 120 so... I think I'll stick with the stainless steel reel I have. Turns out it may be moot, I just got an Autocord TLR from that auction site but it wasn't the one in the pic and not even the same model. I'm returning it (wish me luck) and I think I'll stick with 135 and 4x5 for now

Papa Tango · Jul 27, 2006

scott k said:
Ole,

I just can't figure out how to pull the two halves apart. Can you do that with all the Paterson reels or were some only made for 135?

They come apart with a twist, but I had one hell of a time getting them to do so on the very first round of trying with new reels. I thought I was going to break them. Once it has been done a couple times it's much easier.

Papa Tango · Jul 27, 2006

Donald Qualls said:
I've mentioned it, too, at various times. I don't find the aligment particularly critical, perhaps because I hit on a method very early on that makes it automatic. When I get the first roll fully loaded, I push it another half turn or so around the reel, then push the second roll in behind it; with something like 6-8 inches of the second film already in the spiral, it's automatically aligned very accurately and all I have to do is stick the head of roll 2 to the tail of roll 1 and finish "walking" the film in.

Now, if you try to load 2x120 in a *stainless* 220 reel, you'll be looking at some critical alignment and probalby need to make yourself a jig...

Great technique suggestion Donald. I just gave it a try (although I was only doing two rolls and could have done two reels). What a piece of cake. Much better than fumbling about trying to ensure that the edges are even and the film butts the leader roll. Thanks!

Hans Borjes · Jul 28, 2006

poutnik said:
Hans, I'm using the same jobo tank and reels and have never had such a problem. I always load the emulsion side inwards, feeding the film onto the reel while unrolling from the spool, always trying to hold only the edges of the film and not touch the surface. And never have I had any scratches on the film that I could attribute to the reels...

On negative processing this is most likely not an issue. On reversal processing with the modern T grain films as well. But on reversal processing of classic films this phenomenon becomes apparent.

Would be interesting to know how this is handled by the other slide developers.

Leon · Jul 28, 2006

Stan160 said:
I can't load 120 film in a changing bag without a lot of frustration. It always gets stuck halfway so many times that by the time I've loaded it there are usually scratches on the film. Only been using 120 for the last few weeks so maybe it's the heat and humidity but the film gets so sticky it won't move around the spiral, one got so bad that the unloaded end of the film stuck to itself and ruined several frames.

sorry to hear that Stan. if you do need to use your changing bag in the future, try the cooling methods I describe, they have solved the problem for me.

Donald Qualls · Jul 28, 2006

Hans Borjes said:
Would be interesting to know how this is handled by the other slide developers.

So far, I've processed B&W reversal only with 35 mm Tri-X film on stainless, so can't comment on putting 120 into plastic reels for reversal. However, I've never seen a mark on 120 negatives other than the occasional "murder mark", the little crescent shapes from kinks in the film caused by loading problems -- usually when I'm trying to load a stainless reel for the first time after putting 120 in plastic for a while.

Whiteymorange · Jul 28, 2006

Maybe it's because I was taught by someone self-taught, but... I don't unroll the film from the backing paper first. I just feel the beginning of the film while unrolling the paper from the exposed roll and start that end in the stainless reel. The tape is tha last thing in, and I always rip it off because it would cause problems. Am I alone in this bass-ackwards method? I know 120 feel so much easier than 35 for me. The 2curve I set up wih the film in my "loading hand" seems a really natural one and the film goes into the spiral with far fewer kinks than a 36 shot 35mm, that is for sure!

Ole · Jul 29, 2006

I do that too, when I use a changing bag: Just unroll slowly, and feed the film in as it unrolls.

In the darkroom I unroll the roll until I get a grip on the film itself, then drop the rest (I always load standing up, for some strange reason).

Stan160 · Jul 29, 2006

Leon said:
sorry to hear that Stan. if you do need to use your changing bag in the future, try the cooling methods I describe, they have solved the problem for me.

Thanks Leon, the ice blocks sound like a really good idea, I will give that a try next time.

poutnik · Aug 7, 2006

poutnik said:
...
The problem was not the wetness of the film (or the spiral - I even loaded a film on not-fully-dry spiral from previous development run, and the film went in OK), but instead the leading part of the film going slightly up or down and hitting the ribs
....

Jiri

I have to correct that statement about the wetness of the spiral not causing problems. It's true for Foma films (at least Fomapan 100), it doesn't stick even to the wet spiral. But today I tried Ilford (HP5 +) to load on semi-wet spiral, and it stuck like hell. It took me almost 15minutes to force it on it, I was swearing a lot, but in the and I managed (and I was looking after my 1year old daughter outside the darkroom, hoping she wouldn't hurt herself in the 2 minutes it normally takes me to load a roll... But everything was OK in the end)

tbm · Aug 7, 2006

I went into my darkroom to load a roll of 120 film into a stainless steel reel for the first time last week, and even though I'd examined a test roll by unrolling it in my kitchen, I found myself immediately lost in the dark when I experienced the two paper rolls on the outside of the film! My thoughts were "Yikes...what do I do with this mess next?" and "What is the best way to detach all three elements?". I breathed deeply, calmed down, separated the paper rolls from the film, successfully loaded the film roll onto the reel after 5 attempts, and developed the film. There were crimping marks on it, but the images were okay. Thanks, all, for the wonderful suggestions that will make loading 120 into reels easier!

Terry

kraker · Sep 3, 2006

kraker said:
Of the 2 Paterson reels I have, one came with my "35-mm-only"-tank, and I haven't succeeded in pulling that one apart. Maybe I should (also) try again, but then again: I'm suspecting that some were made only for 35 mm.

Just correcting myself here: also the reel mentioned above can be taken apart and used for 120 film. Still no proof that it's valid for all Paterson reels, but still... I thought I'd share the information.

Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

scott k

Ole

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Hans Borjes

poutnik

Stan160

kraker

scott k

Papa Tango

Papa Tango

Hans Borjes

Leon

Donald Qualls

Whiteymorange

Ole

Moderator

Stan160

poutnik

tbm

kraker

Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

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