Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

laudrup · Jul 25, 2006

Hello Gang,

I borrowed a Mamiya 645 and have been shooting with it over the weekend. I'm keen to develop the film but never having used this format before i've got a couple of queries.

I've been using Ilford FP4...and have a 120 developing tank, but when i was loading the film into the camera there was a thick card/backing paper.

What do i do with this before loading it into the reel? And if it needs to be removed i assume this would have to be done in darkroom conditions.

Any tips or advice appreciated as usual.

Cheers

Adam

eubielicious · Jul 25, 2006

Hi Adam,

The backing paper simply needs to be removed. What I tend to do is unroll the film to the point where I can feel the end of the film itself, I then allow it to roll on itself separately from the backing paper. When I get to the other end of the film, there's normally a small bit of sticky tape which holds it onto the backing paper, I tear it to allow the film to come away. Then I usually pick off the bit of tape that still stuck to the film. The backing paper is then not required, I usually stuff it in my pocket - then load the film onto the reel.

Euan

Steve Smith · Jul 25, 2006

Don't do what one of my father's friends did - Process the paper and leave the film in the changing bag!!

How he managed to get the paper onto the reel I don't know. I have enough trouble getting the film to load and usually invent a few new swear words in the process.

Steve.

mikebarger · Jul 25, 2006

I leave the tape on the film. I fold it over the end, it gives a little more stiffness to the film. Makes it easier for me to stick it in the clip, if your reels uses clips.

Mike

David Brown · Jul 25, 2006

http://www.getnet.com/~gstewart/ss_reels.htm

Hope this helps.

reellis67 · Jul 25, 2006

mikebarger said:
I leave the tape on the film. I fold it over the end, it gives a little more stiffness to the film. Makes it easier for me to stick it in the clip, if your reels uses clips.

Mike

That's what I do as well, and I found it to be most helpful. It just adds a little thickness and texture for the clip to hang on to while loading.

- Randy

Ole · Jul 25, 2006

mikebarger said:
I leave the tape on the film. I fold it over the end, it gives a little more stiffness to the film. Makes it easier for me to stick it in the clip, if your reels uses clips.

Me too. And sometimes I use it to attach film no. 2, so I can do two rolls in one go on a Paterson reel. Warning: The second film has to be very exactly aligned, otherwise you're in trouble. But it's surprisingly easy to do in the dark.

eubielicious · Jul 25, 2006

This is an example of the reason I really like APUG. No matter how much you have done something, someone else comes up with a better way of doing it.

Mike and Ole you are both stars.

Euan

Lopaka · Jul 25, 2006

Steve Smith said:
Don't do what one of my father's friends did - Process the paper and leave the film in the changing bag!!

How he managed to get the paper onto the reel I don't know. I have enough trouble getting the film to load and usually invent a few new swear words in the process.

Steve.

Photographers are very creative - we can always find new ways to screw up. Last night, when I was doing a bunch of 120, at about the ninth roll I was having trouble getting the film onto the reel when I realized I had the backing paper in my hand and the film was on the pile of backing papers from the other eight rolls! After a few minutes of panic (which seemed like hours) I found the film and loaded ok. Whew!

In the days when I used ss reels in dip & dunk tanks, I left the tape on. Now with Jobo plastic reels I take it off.

Bob

laudrup · Jul 25, 2006

Smashing, thanks a lot for the advice guys.

I'll let you know how I get on...i've been fairly pleased with 35mm...just the backing paper on 120 threw me!

Thanks again

Ad

Papa Tango · Jul 25, 2006

Ole said:
Me too. And sometimes I use it to attach film no. 2, so I can do two rolls in one go on a Paterson reel. Warning: The second film has to be very exactly aligned, otherwise you're in trouble. But it's surprisingly easy to do in the dark.

Someone mentioned this in another thread (maybe Ole) and I gave it a shot. The lineup is critical, and may take a couple tries to get it straight, but it sure cut down my process time. Now why I would have never thought of this, as 220 rolls fit on the reel...

Donald Qualls · Jul 25, 2006

Pragmatist said:
Someone mentioned this [processing two rolls of 120 in a single Paterson reel] in another thread (maybe Ole) and I gave it a shot. The lineup is critical, and may take a couple tries to get it straight, but it sure cut down my process time. Now why I would have never thought of this, as 220 rolls fit on the reel...

I've mentioned it, too, at various times. I don't find the aligment particularly critical, perhaps because I hit on a method very early on that makes it automatic. When I get the first roll fully loaded, I push it another half turn or so around the reel, then push the second roll in behind it; with something like 6-8 inches of the second film already in the spiral, it's automatically aligned very accurately and all I have to do is stick the head of roll 2 to the tail of roll 1 and finish "walking" the film in.

Now, if you try to load 2x120 in a *stainless* 220 reel, you'll be looking at some critical alignment and probalby need to make yourself a jig...

laudrup · Jul 26, 2006

Argh...i turned the air blue last night! I fully expected the neighbours to call the police thinking that there was some kind of domestic going on!

I have no problem loading 35mm but for some reason I couldnt get the 120 film into my paterson spiral!

Things seemed relatively straight forward to begin with, I adjusted the universal reel to take 120 film, I removed the backing paper without a problem, I even started to load the film into the reel BUT for some reason the developing reel didnt want to take the film once it was half loaded!

After a large number of unsuccessful attempts I checked the spiral and there was no debris stopping the uptake of the film.

I could only think that the humidity of the room made the film soft (if that makes sense), it was about 33c outside and I was sweating like a pig so may have unwittingly "moistened" the reel!

Other than that i'm at a loss to understand why it wouldnt work! I've got the roll of film stored in a light proof box ready for round 2 tonight!

Any other advice would be appreciated!

poutnik · Jul 26, 2006

Laudrup, I don't know the Paterson spiral, I only know Jobo plastic spiral, but several times I have had similar problem - loading of the film got stuck in the middle and I could not get any further.

The problem was not the wetness of the film (or the spiral - I even loaded a film on not-fully-dry spiral from previous development run, and the film went in OK), but instead the leading part of the film going slightly up or down and hitting the ribs (? don't know how to call them, the radially directed parts connecting the center with the edge of the spiral). Getting it a bit out, centering the leading part of the film with fingers at the same time on both the upper and lower spiral and then guiding the film in usually helps...

(I hope my explanation is not so difficult to understand. If so, I'll try to post a drawing...

Jiri

laudrup · Jul 26, 2006

That makes sense Jiri, i'll give it a try.

I also considered perhaps cutting the corners of the leading part of the films so that it is a bit tapered. that might go into the reel more easily?

thanks for your reply!

poutnik · Jul 26, 2006

It would go more easily into the reals, yes. But I personally would not be too keen to operate the scissors or knife in the dark... But if you have the training (and courage) it will make the loading easier...

Jiri

Leon · Jul 26, 2006

laudrup said:
Argh...i turned the air blue last night! I fully expected the neighbours to call the police thinking that there was some kind of domestic going on!

I have no problem loading 35mm but for some reason I couldnt get the 120 film into my paterson spiral!

Things seemed relatively straight forward to begin with, I adjusted the universal reel to take 120 film, I removed the backing paper without a problem, I even started to load the film into the reel BUT for some reason the developing reel didnt want to take the film once it was half loaded!

After a large number of unsuccessful attempts I checked the spiral and there was no debris stopping the uptake of the film.

I could only think that the humidity of the room made the film soft (if that makes sense), it was about 33c outside and I was sweating like a pig so may have unwittingly "moistened" the reel!

Other than that i'm at a loss to understand why it wouldnt work! I've got the roll of film stored in a light proof box ready for round 2 tonight!

Any other advice would be appreciated!

I find 120 film to be a complete nightmare in hot and humid conditions. I always use the 2 films on a reel method too, so this makes it even more difficult, that along with only using dark-bags to load film and having naturally sweaty hands.

My tips to help this are:
keep the films in the firdge for a good few hours before loading thereels so they stay cool for longer.
try to have dry hands if you can and,
if using changing bags, place a couple of cool bag ice blocks/ or a pack of frozen peas underneath to keep the temperature down whilst loading the film.

Ole · Jul 26, 2006

If you want/need to taper the leading edge, use nail clippers instead of scissors. MUCH safer in the dark!

scott k · Jul 26, 2006

Paterston spiral

I went to the used camera store in downtown Burlington, VT and the guy there said the Paterson spiral doesn't work well at all with 120. The Paterson reel has a couple of stainless steel bearings that grab the sprocket holes along the sides of 135 and help load it into the reel as you twist it. 120 film doesn't have the holes so the film doesn't load as easily. I have to say I've never tried the Paterson reel for 120, I got a used stainless steel reel at that camera shop for $8. My first try at loading the ss reel was a nightmare, I ended up crinkling the film in a couple of spots but after several rolls of film I got the hang of it. I would suggest a stainless steel reel and a practise load in the light with expired film.

PhotoHistorian · Jul 26, 2006

If you want an extra challenge loading film sometime, try loading two rolls of 35mm back to back on a single reel. An old-time 35mm guy taught it to me when I was 12 and just starting in the business. At first I thought he was crazy. But after a few tries it turned out much harder than a single roll. The technique comes in handy when you are one roll too many to fit in your processing tanks for a single run. Give it a try. You will be amazed how quickly you pick it up.

Walker

PhotoHistorian · Jul 26, 2006

Correction to my prevous reply. It is NOT much harder than loading a singel roll. Once it is started correctly, the film working against itself actually makes the procedure easy.
Walker

Gerald Koch · Jul 26, 2006

Get a stainless steel tank and reel. They are much easier to load than the plastic ones.

Ole · Jul 26, 2006

scott k said:
...the guy there said the Paterson spiral doesn't work well at all with 120. The Paterson reel has a couple of stainless steel bearings that grab the sprocket holes along the sides of 135 and help load it into the reel as you twist it. 120 film doesn't have the holes so the film doesn't load as easily. ...

The steel balls work just as well with 120 film. The are in a beveled track, so if the film tries to go backwards the balls grip it and keeps it in place.

It's obvious that the "guy there" had never tried 120 film in a Paterson spiral.

scott k · Jul 26, 2006

Ole,

Regarding the Paterson reels: that could very well be, the guy I was talking to is pretty opinionated. He keeps trying to tell me I have to develope my 4x5s in a tank of some sort because he always scratched his negatives when he uses the tray method. Knock on wood, but I haven't had a scratch developing 4x5 sheets using the tray method.

How do you get the Paterson reel to open up and take 120 film? I'm afraid I'll break it because I don't know where the release is to pull the sides out.

Scott

Ole · Jul 26, 2006

Twist it the same way you do when loading film, then twist it a little more in the same direction. Just like the JOBO spirals, you can then pull the two halves completely apart, or rejoin them in another track for wider film.

Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

laudrup

eubielicious

Steve Smith

mikebarger

David Brown

reellis67

Ole

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Lopaka

laudrup

Papa Tango

Donald Qualls

laudrup

poutnik

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Leon

Ole

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scott k

PhotoHistorian

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Gerald Koch

Ole

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scott k

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Developing 120 Roll-Film Query....

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