Developing 120 film myself... (newbie question!)

ilona · May 12, 2006

gnashings said:
The powder you have will yield the "stock" solution. All the 1+1, 1+3, etc. refer to further diluting that "stock" with water. Different dilutions give different "looks" to the finished product - its not simply a case of less diluted=less developing time (although this is usually true as well, obviously).

What difference in "look" will dilution give?
Could be developer-dependent though... I think I have Kodak D76 (can't check right now).

PS: metric is fine

Blighty · May 12, 2006

Dilute development is really good for very contrasty subjects and also gives better acutance (sharpness). You may find some increase in grain with D76/ID11 especially at 1:3

Ed Sukach · May 12, 2006

We are revisiting the "static spark while removing the tape" thing again? Ole has described the tiny "row of light" seen as this happens - it is not static electricity - but had something to do with "bubble" (?) phenomenom... therefore was not affected by the lack of humidity.

I know not what others may conclude.... but...

I have processed a few (hundred ? - who is counting?) rolls of 120, removing the tape from the film - or attempting to - every time. Fast removal - slow - and have noticed that minute amount of light, with eyes conditioned to the lack of light, frequently. I have NEVER noticed ANY fogging as a result - I would say that there is not enough light energy produced to affect the film.

Your mileage may vary. As for me - that is simply one more item added to my collection of "Old Wives' Tales and Myths of Photography".

gnashings · May 12, 2006

ilona said:
What difference in "look" will dilution give?
Could be developer-dependent though... I think I have Kodak D76 (can't check right now).

PS: metric is fine

Exactly what Blighty said inthe case of D76 and most others. Keep in mind that other developers may react differently - the best thing to do is to use what I call "educated experiments". What I mean by that is look up as much about the give developer as you can (APUG is a great place to look), and you will get an idea of what to expect - from there, you will have to see if the differences are to your liking and/or worth the effort. This is a very subjective hobby - what some people consider grbage, others see as treasure and everything in between.
I only use D76 at 1+1 (the very few times that I do use it), having tried stock and more dilute solutions, I like this one the best - it gives me the best combination of grain and sharpness. Of course, I like grain - so again, try for yourself.

Did you develop that roll yet?

Peter.

ilona · May 15, 2006

Hi!

No, the roll is not developed yet. But it's in the tank by now, finally!

Since I don't have a proper darkroom, I had to wait until it was dark, switch all the light off and use the bathroom as darkroom. In other words, I was forced to begin quite late. Then it took me a while to actually put the film on the reel. Now it is, but I don't really know in which state!... I really have to practice more in the light because I think I put my fingers about everywhere on the film (it was so curly and it would suddenly go backwards and fall from the reel...). Next time better! So, it ended-up quite late yesterday and I gave up on the development.

During the afternoon I mixed the developer though (D76). The most difficult part was finding a thermometer that would go above 50 degrees C as my local photographic shops didn't have that (only up to 50 and they didn't have a changing bag either). I resorted to use a dismounted garden thermometer that would go just above 60 degrees C. Probably not very accurate but the water had to be somewhere between 50 and 55 degrees C so that was OK I guess. For the rest of the process I can use a "normal" photographic thermometer.

This evening I'm going to develop. I'm so curious to see the results!

Fintan · May 15, 2006

Hi Ilona,

A changing bag would make life easier for you, see this link.
http://www.novadarkroom.com/acatalog/Papersafes_Changing_Bags.html

Fintan

dancqu · May 15, 2006

ilona said:
During the afternoon I mixed the developer though (D76).
The most difficult part was finding a thermometer that
would go above 50 degrees C ...

One of the one-size-fits-all instructions in photography is
mixing at a solution temperature of 125 F. A few degrees
less would have been just fine. As a general rule the
lower the temperature the less damage. Dan

ilona · May 16, 2006

Hi!

Well, the point with the thermometer was that I needed to know if the water was at 60°C or just barely 50°C. I couldn't check with just putting my finger in (yet!... Now I know how 20°C water feels! ). Also someone stressed out the fact that the water should be at warm enough otherwise the chemicals would not dissolve correctly, which made sense I think.

But OK, I managed to develop two rolls yesterday. Thank you all for the advice!
From the two rolls, there is close to nothing on the first one but I thing I screwed the exposures with my home-made pinhole camera. The second film was shot with a "normal" camera and it looks nice. I have just a dried droplet on the very last image and a little stain of chemicals on one edge mid-film. I guess it's because I didn't remove the excess water on the film. I did it with the first film but the chamois cloth recommended in the Ilford manual did let a lot of dust on my film. Since I didn't want to ruin the second film with my images, I decided not to dry the film.
Now I must go back shopping: find a changing bag and a squeegee!

Is there a way to remove stains and water droplets?

Nige · May 16, 2006

most people will tell you to avoid a squeegee... the 1st time you scratch a film, you'll really make a mess!

Do you have some wetting agent (Photoflo, etc) yet? If you can get cheap distilled or de-ionised water (I pay about US$2.50 for a gallon) a final rinse in this with one or two drops of a wetting agent then hang to dry.

gnashings · May 16, 2006

ilona said:
Hi!

Well, the point with the thermometer was that I needed to know if the water was at 60°C or just barely 50°C. I couldn't check with just putting my finger in (yet!... Now I know how 20°C water feels! ). Also someone stressed out the fact that the water should be at warm enough otherwise the chemicals would not dissolve correctly, which made sense I think.

The funny thing is, I have very good friend who is light years ahead of me in terms of photography - knowledge, experience, youname it - and while I use a thermometer, he generally uses his finger as well. If the results are the best way to judge - this is definitely a very viable option! The water for mixing powder chems is something you will do comperatively rarely - and like I said - I use a WalMart thermometer, plastic and cheap, and it serves me well for all aspects of this. I think to a large extent the key to this game is finding a way to be consistent - the method is secondary to your ability to that comfortably.

ilona said:
But OK, I managed to develop two rolls yesterday. Thank you all for the advice!
From the two rolls, there is close to nothing on the first one but I thing I screwed the exposures with my home-made pinhole camera. The second film was shot with a "normal" camera and it looks nice. I have just a dried droplet on the very last image and a little stain of chemicals on one edge mid-film. I guess it's because I didn't remove the excess water on the film. I did it with the first film but the chamois cloth recommended in the Ilford manual did let a lot of dust on my film. Since I didn't want to ruin the second film with my images, I decided not to dry the film.
Now I must go back shopping: find a changing bag and a squeegee!

Is there a way to remove stains and water droplets?

I gave up on the seueege - definitely get some photflo, that should make the water sheet off the film too quickly to leave deposits. I would definitely not use a cloth... perhaps it works for some, but I see it as a potentially disasterous collection of lint and scratches. I find that 120 film is actually less prone to water spots than 35mm, probably because a roll is shorter? I don't know. But I do know that I have exceptionally hard water, and water spots have been a nightmare for me. Distilled water and photoflo took care of that!

Robert McGraw · May 16, 2006

When you separate the film from the backing, do it slowly. If you jerk the tape off, static electricity can create tiny sparks that can fog the film a little. It's not a serious problem, but it is worth exercising a little caution.

dancqu · May 16, 2006

[QUOTES=gnashings]
"I think to a large extent the key to this game
is finding a way to be consistent - ..."

That is not so easy if a tenth or two or three degree
are made important to the process. Water baths, a
constant room temperature and humidity become
important as tolerances are reduced.

"I gave up on the squeegee - ... "

THE squeegee. That's like giving up on THE SS reel,
THE print paper safe, THE etc. There are squeegees
and then there are squeegees. I bought one a few
years ago that was a joke. A Yankee sponge type
did well for many years. I now use a Jobo eight
blade, four each side, and am very satisfied.
Jobo is one of a few Brand Names for the
same squeegee.

The Jobo is wetted and rinsed thoroughly in
the Photo Flo solution from which the film has just
emerged. With the film clipped up and held taught the
wet squeegee is drawn SLOWLY downward. Then the
bottom clip is added. The film will dry quickly.

"... hard water, and water spots ... . Distilled water
and photoflo took care of that!" --- Same here. Dan

gnashings · May 17, 2006

dancqu said:
[QUOTES=gnashings]
"I think to a large extent the key to this game
is finding a way to be consistent - ..."

That is not so easy if a tenth or two or three degree
are made important to the process. Water baths, a
constant room temperature and humidity become
important as tolerances are reduced.

Certainly agreed - but my point, from a somewhat advanced beginner to another - was that getting consistent should be a priority, as it will invariably lead to better enjoyment of the whole undertaking. You are certainly correct in saying that when you reach a certain point it is not easy - but wouldn't you say it still a prime objective?

dancqu said:
["I gave up on the squeegee - ... "

THE squeegee. That's like giving up on THE SS reel,
THE print paper safe, THE etc. There are squeegees
and then there are squeegees. I bought one a few
years ago that was a joke. A Yankee sponge type
did well for many years. I now use a Jobo eight
blade, four each side, and am very satisfied.
Jobo is one of a few Brand Names for the
same squeegee.

The Jobo is wetted and rinsed thoroughly in
the Photo Flo solution from which the film has just
emerged. With the film clipped up and held taught the
wet squeegee is drawn SLOWLY downward. Then the
bottom clip is added. The film will dry quickly.

I think I didn't phrase this precisely enough - I am certainly of the same mind as you - not THE squeege, but you know... not even MY PARTICULAR squeege: I believe it is probably a fine product (its a Paterson thingy, 4 blades, I believe) - I should have extrapolated a bit.
I got fine results with that squeege - no issues. Then I had one - almost certainly through my own fault and oversight - and I found a process that worked better for me, and elminated the anxiety that I started to feel around my squeege from that point on. Even though, I can't stress enough - its probably, almost certainly, not the objects fault but mine.

Hope that clarifies it a bit - I didn't mean to oeversimplify or make sweeping generalizations, as I personally don't much like them

Peter.

JLP · May 17, 2006

Perhaps it was already covered by an earlier response but thought i should mention it in case it wasn't. i always clean the tank with compressed air just before i load the film. Even excessive cleaning of the tank when you are done with one film can not completely eliminate dust while your tank is drying up for the next roll.
In addition, to avoid the statics from the tape i just made it a habbit to bring a scissor in and cut the film from the backing instead of ripping it off.
Also as so many have recomended already, squegees always seems to leave scratches on the most pristine and valuable images on a roll, never fails.

jan

ilona · May 18, 2006

Hi all!

I was thinking of getting some wetting agent for the final rinse. I didn't use any for the two rolls I developed. Thanks for the tips!

Kapten Stofil · May 18, 2006

ilona said:
Hi all!

I was thinking of getting some wetting agent for the final rinse. I didn't use any for the two rolls I developed. Thanks for the tips!

I use a couple of drops of Ilfotol in the tank, fill it with water, invert a couple of times and let it sit for a couple of minutes after washing, then just take the film out and hang it up using weighted clips. I never have stains on my films. Wash the tank thoroughly when you are done.

Also, read Ilford's papers on developing from their Web site. Their recommended method of washing is much faster and uses a lot less water than running water through the tank for half an hour.

Developing 120 film myself... (newbie question!)

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