Developer with highest contrast

Rolleiflexible · Jan 30, 2007

I'm trying to move from Agfa MCC 111 to Ilford Galerie graded papers. I print nearly everything somewhere between Grades 3 and 4. Unfortunately, Ilford doesn't sell a Grade 4.

I'm using LPD (liquid, not powder) in a 1:3 dilution. I need another half-grade to grade of contrast.

Suggestions?

Jon Shiu · Jan 30, 2007

Hi, I suggest adding some dektol stock solution to your working lpd solution. I have not tried this with graded paper yet, but it does seem to add midtone contrast to MGIV VC, in my experience.

Jon

Keith Tapscott. · Jan 30, 2007

Sanders McNew said:
I'm trying to move from Agfa MCC 111 to Ilford Galerie graded papers. I print nearly everything somewhere between Grades 3 and 4. Unfortunately, Ilford doesn't sell a Grade 4.

I'm using LPD (liquid, not powder) in a 1:3 dilution. I need another half-grade to grade of contrast.

Suggestions?

Developing your films a bit longer in future should help.

Ian Grant · Jan 30, 2007

Try a developer like Ilford's ID 14 which was recommended for increasing print contrast. You'll have to make it up yourself. I have tried this developer myself and it does give a good increase in contrast while still retaining good tonality.

Ilford ID-14

Metol 1.5g
SodiumSulphite (anh) 75g
Hydroquinone 12.5g
Sodium Carbonate (anh) 37.5g
Potassium Bromide 2g
Water to 1litre

Use FS

Hope that helps, of course most companies published similar developers, I can remember the Kodak or Agfa (Ansco) equivalents off hand.

Ian

noseoil · Jan 30, 2007

Ansco 130 or an amidol type of developer will give as much contrast as is possible in the paper. While I haven't used the 130, the consensus this weekend at Per's workshop was that it is about as good as it gets for contrast in a given paper. Amidol is great stuff, but doesn't last as long in the tray and is costly in terms of $. Both are worth a look. tim

ann · Jan 30, 2007

try what you have at 1:1

donbga · Jan 30, 2007

noseoil said:
Amidol is great stuff, but doesn't last as long in the tray and is costly in terms of $

This is, IMO, is a darkroom myth. Amidol will last all day. But don't take my word for it, ask Michael Smith or Paula Chamlee.

noseoil · Jan 30, 2007

"This is, IMO, is a darkroom myth." It lasts very well for a full day of printing, as will other developers, this is no myth. It will expire on the second day. No myth, just fact. tim

reellis67 · Jan 30, 2007

Ansco 130 full strength gives quite a bit of contrast in my experience.

- Randy

avandesande · Jan 30, 2007

you could intensify the negatives you want to do in selenium. that will add a grade or two.

avandesande · Jan 30, 2007

This also depends on the worker.
Even when I use LPD I dump the solution after each session, so whether it lasts a day or a week is irrelevant.

noseoil said:
"This is, IMO, is a darkroom myth." It lasts very well for a full day of printing, as will other developers, this is no myth. It will expire on the second day. No myth, just fact. tim

reellis67 · Jan 30, 2007

avandesande said:
you could intensify the negatives you want to do in selenium. that will add a grade or two.

I've read that too, but every experience that I have shows that selenium will give, at most, 1/2 step boost in contrast. Sepia seems to give a bit more than that, perhaps a full step, but I have not done extensive testing so I can't give specific values other than what I have stated here.

- Randy

Rolleiflexible · Jan 30, 2007

Milton at B+H pointed me to Edwal Ultra Black yesterday. Any thoughts about it as a contrast enhancer? How might it compare to Ansco 130 (which B+H also stocks) or Ilford ID-14?

Rolleiflexible · Jan 30, 2007

Galerie doesn't seem to react much to selenium. I tried a 1:3 KRST bath for a couple of minutes and it didn't budge much in contrast. Sanders

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 30, 2007

The recommendation is to selenium tone your negatives, not the prints, to increase contrast. Try 1:3 for 8 minutes for a one zone expansion.

In general, why not increase your film development time, so that you can target to grade 2-3 instead of 3-4? Targeting to grade 3 gets better grain for 35mm, but you're not making huge prints, and you're starting with medium and large format negs, so you could target to grade 2 and the grain penalty would be small.

jeroldharter · Jan 30, 2007

I like Ultra Black but find the results almost identical to Zone VI which is cheaper and lasts much longer in terms of capacity.

The Ultra Black had fairly low capacity.

Ole · Jan 30, 2007

avandesande said:
you could intensify the negatives you want to do in selenium. that will add a grade or two.

The two problems with that are:

1: Selenium toning the negative is irreversible. Once it's toned, it's toned. If you decide you want more contrast increase, or les, it's too late.

2: Selenium toning doesn't really give much of a boost to the contrast, compared with other intensification techniques. "A grade or two" is more than I've seen reported, it's more like half a grade to one grade - though of course this also depends on the film, the developer used, and most likely the phases of the moon.

If you want a real boost in contrast, try bleaching and redeveloping in a staining developer. This also has the advantage of being both reversible and "tunable". The extreme case is the pyro/lye developer I used to boost a rather flat negative until it was perfect for POP...

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 30, 2007

Also, I don't think Galerie (not sure about the warmtone version) responds terribly well to developer controls or toning, though it's a nice paper. Amidol will get you a slight increase in Dmax, but it won't really change the contrast of the paper.

Ian Grant · Jan 30, 2007

From memory ID-14 gave somewhere between a half and just short of a full grade increase in contrast with Ilford papers, and I used it with Gallerie.

Ian

Sanders McNew said:
Milton at B+H pointed me to Edwal Ultra Black yesterday. Any thoughts about it as a contrast enhancer? How might it compare to Ansco 130 (which B+H also stocks) or Ilford ID-14?

Ian Grant · Jan 30, 2007

Don't forget Dr Beer's Variable Contrast developer as well.

When I last used Galerie this was listed in the Ilford Technical sheet for the paper, and was recommended for contrast manipulation. Dr Beers's Developer It's one of the formulae Sean's still has to relist in the Articles section here.

The highest contrast dilution should give you at least an extra half grade in contrast.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 30, 2007

I haven't yet used Ilford Galerie, although I will. Lately I've printed a lot on Ilford MGIV fibre along with Kentmere Bromide graded paper. I've used Ansco 130 developer at 1+1 dilution with a dash of Dektol stock in it. Temp of the developer raised (thanks FlyingCamera) to about 72*F.
I've been able to alter the contrast of both VC and graded paper by how long the paper is in the developer, and by agitation agility. I couldn't say exactly how much, but it's definitely possible to build density in the low values while the highlights remain pretty much intact.

Try it out, I'm having a ball with it. Plus, the Ansco 130 makes some damned nice prints anyway. Or, test the Kentmere Bromide paper, which is available in grade 4. It's really good paper with rich tones.

- Thom

TheFlyingCamera · Jan 30, 2007

I know some AZO-heads who have all but converted to Kentmere Kentona - it's worth a try. Kentona is considered to be a Grade 3 paper, so combining it with Ansco 130 or Dektol at 1:1 or undiluted would give you lots of punch to meet your negs requirements. I'm about to try out some as a possible substitute for my Bergger VCCB since that may be going away.

Rolleiflexible · Jan 30, 2007

Ian, thanks for the information on ID-14 and Beers. I'll try to mix up some ID-14 and see what happens. What sort of tray/bottle life does it have? Is it a one-shot developer, or can I keep it awhile? Sanders

Black Dog · Jan 30, 2007

You could also add extra carbonate to your print developer.

Ian Grant · Jan 31, 2007

Hi Sanders, the last batch of ID-14 I used was a few years ago now, but it did keep well on the shelf. Dish life is no different to Dektol or any othe MQ developer.

For highest contrast results it should be used full strenght, but I guess it could be diluted 1+1.

It's a useful developer to have in the darkroom when you need to get that extra bit of contrast from your bromide paper. It works far more effectively than adding a bit of this or that extra into a normal developer. As David Goldfarb said earlier in this thread some papers (warm tone chloro-bromides) are easy to manipulate with other techniques, but papers like Galerie need a different approach.

Ian

Sanders McNew said:
Ian, thanks for the information on ID-14 and Beers. I'll try to mix up some ID-14 and see what happens. What sort of tray/bottle life does it have? Is it a one-shot developer, or can I keep it awhile? Sanders

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