Developer with AgNO3 (silver nitrate)

[menelajas]

I' would like to try Physical developer (sorry don't now all terms in English). The aim:
Fixing film at first and after that developing. I know that there are two types of physical developing a) normal order and second b) fixing first.

Developer contains AgNO3. Maybe anyone have tried this and know how to prepare developer? This developer decrease sensitivity, it gives very small grain.

I hope you understand what about I'm talking

 

[Martin Reed]

Formula

Well, this is a formula taken from the 1958 Ilford Manual. I've never used it, and I don't know anyone who has - please report back!

In the physical method of fine grain development, the emulsion is first superficially iodized in a forebath to accelerate development and thus eliminate the need for heavy over-exposure, and is then developed in a developer containing, in addition to the usual developing agent(s), soluble silver and a silver halide solvent. Use of a tank - rather than a dish - is to be preferred, and it must be of a material that does not encourage the deposition of silver on the tank. Plastic or hard rubber tanks are usually quite suitable.

Forebath
Potassium iodide 10g
Sodium sulphite 25g
Water to make 1 litre
This solution can be used repeatedly if stored in a brown bottle.

Stock Silver Solution
Sodium sulphite, anhyd. 100g
Silver nitrate 16g
Sodium thiosulphate, crystalline 160g
Water to make 1 litre
Dissolve the sulphite in 500ml water, and the silver nitrate in 400ml water. Add the silver solution to the sulphite solution and stir until the precipitate formed is completely dissolved. Then add and dissolve the hypo.

Physical Developer
Stock silver solution 200ml
Amidol 1.5g
Water to make 1 litre
Make up about 10 minutes before use, thoroughly stirring to dissolve the amidol. This solution may be used only once.

1 Load the film into the tank and pour in the forebath. Allow this to act for 3-4 minutes, agitating intermittently.

2 Pour off the forebath and rinse the film well, using at least 2 changes of water.

3 Pour in the developer and agitate the film intermittently for the required development time, normally about 30 minutes.

4 Pour off the developer and again rinse the film well.

5 Fix the film in a normal acid hardening-fixing bath. [in 1958 this implied a slow sodium thiosulphate fixer] This will require about 20 minutes in a fresh bath. This time is longer than that normally required, because in the forebath the emulsion is converted to silver iodide, which clears very slowly.

6 Wash the film in the usual way. Before drying, gently wipe the surface of the film with a pad of cotton wool to remove any loose deposit of silver.

 

[Martin Reed]

Don't do it!

I've just read that recipe properly, and in all honesty, forget it! It's very expensive on silver nitrate now, and is a crazy amount of silver to be dumping down the drains. I rather doubt if there are any benefits to it in this age.

 

[menelajas]

Thanks for great respond Martin.
As I'm working on albumen print, I have silver nitrate. I think we have some AgNO3 at our college too. My lecture was talking about this developer (just generally), I asked have to look over her library. But she mentioned ingredients as: citric acid, metol...

Maybe anyone have tried this stuff?

 

[menelajas]

as intensifier

If I understand correctly all developer with AgNo3 work as negative intensifier? I have found info:
http://www.photoformulary.com/uploads/05-0070.pdf

 

[nworth]

That developer would cost about US$3 a shot. Expensive, yes, but it might be worth it for the fun. You would probably need to use a whole liter before you got anything near an acceptable negative. Silver could (and should) be recovered by any of the standard methods used for reclaiming it from used fixer.

A couple of other physical developer formulas to consider. They are very old, and they may not work with modern films.

Focal physical developer
Fore Bath
Potassium iodide 5 g
Sodium sulfite 12.5 g
WTM 500 ml
Developer
Solution A
(1) Silver nitrate 12.5 g
Distilled water 200 ml
(2) Sodium sulfite 50 g
WTM 500 ml
Pour (1) into (2) with stirring until precipitate is dissolved.
Then add:
Sodium thiosulfate 150 g
Water 1 l
Solution B
Metol 2 g
Hydroquinone 4 g
Sodium sulfite 40 g
Trisodium phosphate 32 g
WTM 1 l
Pour fore bath onto dry film and allow to act for 3 to 4 minutes. Then develop.
Dilute developer 1:1:3 for use. After development, fix at least 20 minutes.
Swab away any loose silver before drying.

The Focal formula is very similar to the one from Ilford, but it gives a few more details on the process.

Physical developer (Kodak)
Solution A
Metol 20 g
Citric acid 40 g
Gum arabic (20%) 40 ml
Distilled WTM 1 l
Solution B
Siver Nitrate (10%) prn
Mix 1 part B with 25 parts A just before use. Develop up to 5 minutes at 20C.

Physical developer (ODell)
Forebath
Potassium iodide 3 g
Sodium sulfite 12.5 g
Distilled WTM 1 l
Developer stock solution
Sodium sulfite 30 g
Silver nitrate 8 g
Sodium thiosulfate 80 g
Distilled WTM 1 l
Dilute 1:5 with water and add, just before use
Amidol 750 mg
Bathe film in forebath for 3 to 4 minutes. Forebath can be reused six or seven times. Rinse in two changes of water. Develop 30 minutes at 18C. Rinse develoed film in water and remove any scum with cotton. Fix in a hardening fixer.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Be forewarned to wear rubber gloves, old clothes and safety glasses as Silver Nitrate can stain your hands and clothes and also burn you. Also be warned that KI, once in solution, does not last more than a few months. Do NOT use NaI, as it is too unstable in water to even consider.

PE

 

[menelajas]

May intentions is to use physical development for Foma creative (iso 200) film sheet (4x5) (as I get them cheaply).
Know I'm collecting information, maybe anyone knows some resources where to read more?
Thanks guys

 

[Chazzy]

It all sounds fascinating. Something to try just for the fun of it, I think.

 

[CBG]

nworth, Thanks for your formulas. Could you say where you found your formulas? I'm creating a compendium of formulas and making it as wide ranging as I can. Any sources you could name for your formulas would be much appreciated.

Martin, thanks for your info also.

Charlie

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Just to stress what PE says, silver nitrate will cause blindness if you get it in your eyes, so always wear eye protection, gloves and an apron when handling it. I'm sure you already know this from albumen printing, but if anyone else is thinking of trying this, it's important. When you get silver nitrate on your skin, you won't notice it until your skin is exposed to UV light and it prints out. It was used in surgery in the nineteenth century to cauterize wounds, and is still used today for some procedures like cauterizing the umbilical cord stump. Our son's navel was black for months after he was born.

Not intentionally a physical developer per se, but you get a lot of physical development with monobath processing. After the initial chemical development, the fixer clears the film, and silver in the monobath solution attaches itself to the developed silver, but interestingly, Haist says in The Monobath Manual this silver doesn't add as much density to the image per unit of silver as the chemically developed silver. I have noticed that is very easy to get more contrast than you want with monobath processing, but I haven't tried making an albumen print yet from a monobath neg. If what Haist says applies to these physical developer formulas, that may explain why they've fallen out of favor--there are less expensive and better ways of increasing density range.

 

[Hologram]

Not intentionally a physical developer per se, but you get a lot of physical development with monobath processing. After the initial chemical development, the fixer clears the film, and silver in the monobath solution attaches itself to the developed silver, but interestingly, Haist says in The Monobath Manual this silver doesn't add as much density to the image per unit of silver as the chemically developed silver. I have noticed that is very easy to get more contrast than you want with monobath processing, but I haven't tried making an albumen print yet from a monobath neg. If what Haist says applies to these physical developer formulas, that may explain why they've fallen out of favor--there are less expensive and better ways of increasing density range.

I agree that what you call monobath processing (also known as colloidal or solution physical development) may actually do the same as physical developers – in a much simpler, more economical, less hazardous way.
See http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Physical/physical.html
I extensively used colloidal developers with Russian holographic emulsions. These developers produce very small grains, resulting in nice orange layers of colloidal silver..

By the way, physical developers may not necessarily be based on silver, other metals may me be used as well: nickel, copper etc.