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Developer Temp

CMoore

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I have a bunch of contact sheets to print. Last night i got the chemicals ready. For the paper i am using Photo Formulary Liquidol.
The temp of the developer at 2:30 PM Pacific Time is 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Is that too far away from 68 to be useful.?
Should i toss in some ice.....or will i need too much ice to get 8-12 degrees of change.?
Should i pour the stuff into a container and then into the refrigerator for awhile.?
Thank You
 

GRHazelton

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If you feel the need to cool the developer, put the ice cubes in a zip-lock bag. Thus no dilution. Before that you might give a try and see if the temp difference is too much.
 

MattKing

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This is a perfect example of the value of descriptive thread titles.
If you had titled this: "Liquidol - what temperature?" then APUG's Photo Engineer (aka Ron Mowrey, who with Bill Troop co-designed and created Liquidol) would most likely have seen the thread and answered you already. .
Here is the data-sheet from the Formulary's site: http://photoformulary.homestead.com/02-0200.pdf - note the telephone number.
 

voceumana

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In college (ages ago) I had to do some printing in a darkroom when the ambient was in the 90's and the water temp couldn't get down to a reasonable level. I used the Kodak Darkroom Dataguide film computer to adjust developing time to about 15 seconds, after first attempts at normal developing time gave horrible results. The developer was Dektol, and with adjusted developing time I got OK results. It was, however, the first time I saw paper grain.

Get the temperature down to the mid 70s if you want reasonable results.
 

Photo Engineer

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Liquidol was designed to be used at no more than 68 F or 20 C. Above that, it may cause fog.

PE
 

Arklatexian

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Many years ago, I had a photographer friend who turned out some of the most beautiful 11 x 14 prints using a IIIf Leica with a 90mm Elmar lens and panatomic X film. I once asked him the temperature question. Did he go to the trouble on maintaining 20C in his processing. I will always remember his answer. It was "certainly, there are too many ways that I can screw up a photograph and those things I have control over, I control". That is now one of my rules in the darkroom............Regards!
 

mshchem

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80 F that's Cibachrome territory. I am so lucky My darkroom is in a corner of the lower level of my house that is surrounded on the outer walls by Mother Earth. Pretty much 65 to 70 all year round. I was taught early on to be a fanatic about maintaining constant 68 F start to finish on film. I have nice mixing valves, no matter what I process I maintain temp. As close as I can. I would guess RC paper would be more tolerant of tropical development. But, Thank God, since the developer incorporated, speedy (rapid) RC stuff has pretty much gone away, paper no longer just develops to completion in 45 seconds.
For RC and FB, 2 minutes at 68 to 70 F. Never vary time or temperature.
Of course you could do the Ilford 2150 approach, I think those machines run well over 100F and make darn nice prints.
Mike
 
OP
OP

CMoore

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I Did Call the number on their paper, but it was a recording saying to leave a message....and i guess they are also tied up with a Bread & Breakfast.?

Yes, i have several of those reusable Ice Bags/Plastic Squares...don't know why i did not think of that myself, i was staring Right At Them when i opened the freezer.
Thank You All.....
 

MattKing

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Consider nesting your (smaller) developer tray inside a larger bin/tray holding cooled or flowing water.
 

Photo Engineer

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The Photographer's Formulary is open weekdays 8 - 5 Mountain time. It is indeed a B&B as well and also a photo lab, photo school and photo studio for their workshops. You should visit their site.

Liquidol was designed for 20C or 68F and sacrificed loose temperature control for longevity and capacity. Sorry if that does not suit you, but as with most things there is no magic bullet.

PE
 

pentaxuser

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Given how hot some areas of the U.S. can get in summer and mention of the cold tap delivering water at over 90F it has surprised me that I haven't seen more threads on what B&W film and paper developers work at higher temperatures such as 80F plus.

Out of curiosity and as it may help others like the OP, what does work and at what temperatures?

pentaxuser
 
OP
OP

CMoore

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Yes...Thank You for asking.....
 

Luis-F-S

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I'd add ice. If you have a Zone VI compensating timer, it will adjust the paper developing time as the developer warms up. That's also why they make chillers!
 

Photo Engineer

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This is very complex. What may work for one paper or film, may not work for another satisfactorily.

PE
 

pentaxuser

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P.E. well I have learned something about Liquidol that I would never have assumed, namely it was specifically designed to operate at what may be a normal/ achievable temp all year round in the U.K. but may be difficult to achieve in a lot of the U.S. Above the temp of 20C you sacrifice longevity certainly and likely get fogging as well

I had a quick look at several Ilford paper developers and all of those suggest that these "problems" might arise at temps much beyond 20C so it may be that all paper developers only operate properly within a few degrees above 20C and those in hot climates have no choice but to control the temp however inconvenient this might be.

If that is the reality then so be it but I had just wondered if there were more robust paper developers i.e. those that will operate properly in situations where the ambient temp reaches say 25- 30C. It would appear not. In terms of temperature paper developers may all be generically very similar

pentaxuser
 

BMbikerider

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There is also a risk with high temperatures when developing film, except of course colour or Ilford XP2, that the emulsion may also detach itself from the backing and you will be left with nothing but a black sludge sediment and a blank film strip.

On the point of using ice cubes to cool the water. When I was in the army stationed in Cyprus the temperature in the buildings (single story metal roofed things) could easily get the internal temps over 100. I used to bottle the water used for developing and leave it in a refrigerator for an hour or two. Then before use, I would mix the developer concentrate into the cold water and allow the temp to rise to just below 68f and then complete the development. The stop bath and fixer were cooled but it isn't so critical. However it is always wise to use a hardening fixer - it just toughens up the emulsion a little bit.
 

Photo Engineer

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You can always test the Liquidol with your paper at your temperature and see if it works. I know you will have to shorten development time. Where I live now, and where I grew up, it was very easy to get 20C, but then in the summer, I mostly shot my film and did the processing and printing when the weather was not so good.

PE
 

esearing

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I ran some Ilford MGFB Classic and Multigrade Art paper through Ethol LPD at temps between 72 and 78 yesterday with no problems. Then washed them in 80-ish degree running water. Only the Art paper showed any issues along one sheets edge. It was hard to maintain coolness even when using bags of ice. I have to process film in the kitchen in summer since my darkroom seems to get hotter than outdoors.
 
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CMoore

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Perhaps i have already made a mistake, but.....what about the Liquidol itself.?
I have an opened and a new unopened bottle. Can/Should i store those bottles in the refrigerator.?
When it is hot here...like 96-103 outside, it will be 80-85 in the house.
Thank You
 

mshchem

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One advantage to living in Iowa
Saturday it was about 90F outdoors, AC set at 75F,
Darkroom water bath see picture. In summer Darkroom is always 66 to 70F. However, if I turn on my Ilford 20" RC print dryer that's a different story. Also even with AC I run a dehumidifier all through warm months. In the winter, solutions are usually about 60 F before I warm them up. Cold tap water summer 58-60, winter 45 to 50F.
Best Mike

 
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