Developer storage - not glass

pierods · Apr 11, 2013

Hi,

I find the idea of fractioning developer in many small containers ready for use not practical, mainly because it's difficult to find small containers that hold exactly the quantity that I need when filled to the brim.

I find it a better idea to fill 1 L glass containers to the brim (which is slightly more than 1L) for storage, and then pour the rest in something like a floppy tank [see image] where air can be squeezed out.

I would do the same when needing more developer, breaking open a 1 L container and empty it out in the floppy bag.

I think many people are against plastic squeezable containers, but these floppy bags squeeze better than accordion bottles and in any case since they hold 2/3 doses, content will not have many chances to oxidize before the container gets empty.

Does anybody have an idea about where to buy these?

pentaxuser · Apr 11, 2013

Telling us where you are might help.

pentaxuser

pierods · Apr 11, 2013

I am in Germany, but at least finding out the commercial name of the thing would help.

Refillable bladder? Cappable?

bobwysiwyg · Apr 11, 2013

Here's a 1L option.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/camping/drinkware/water-bottles/1-liter-collapsible-water-bottle.html

ath · Apr 11, 2013

You can buy them prefilled from Maco and Generalphoto and probably others.

pierods · Apr 11, 2013

ath said:
You can buy them prefilled from Maco and Generalphoto and probably others.

Yes but I have no use for the Agfa developer they contain, so when they break (they are soft plastic) I will have to re-buy the Agfa developer and re-toss it...

spijker · Apr 11, 2013

Camping or outdoor stores would sell them, like here: https://www.globetrotter.de/shop/platypus-faltflasche-standard-112160

But find out how "oxygen-tight" these things are.

pentaxuser · Apr 11, 2013

Firstcall in the U.K. sell these bags but only full of chemical . If you are asking where you can buy empty bags to allow you to fill them yourself then I don't know and I suspect you are asking this. I think these bags are made specifically for certain makers who sell the developer/fixer etc on these bags and you may not be able to buy a few of them as a member of the public.

However why not buy 3L wineboxes, drink the wine then re-use the bags. I do this all the time. Eventually the taps for pouring will leak but by then the winebag itself should probably be replaced.

So unfortunately you have to buy more wine and drink it. A dirty job, as they say, but someone has got to do it

pentaxuser

pierods · Apr 11, 2013

pentaxuser said:
Firstcall in the U.K. sell these bags but only full of chemical . If you are asking where you can buy empty bags to allow you to fill them yourself then I don't know and I suspect you are asking this. I think these bags are made specifically for certain makers who sell the developer/fixer etc on these bags and you may not be able to buy a few of them as a member of the public.

However why not buy 3L wineboxes, drink the wine then re-use the bags. I do this all the time. Eventually the taps for pouring will leak but by then the winebag itself should probably be replaced.

So unfortunately you have to buy more wine and drink it. A dirty job, as they say, but someone has got to do it

pentaxuser

Well...that, I can do...

mrred · Apr 11, 2013

Search fleabay for "Collapsible Water Bottle". Most of them are only 16 oz, but there was one for 5l that just begs to have a batch xtol stored in it.

sepiareverb · Apr 11, 2013

I use glass or the original plastic with a blast of Bloxygen (Argon gas) before sealing. I've kept DD-X, Sprint Film Developer, Perceptol and even Studionol (R09 Spezial) after opening with no problems of spoilage. Months of use from a bottle of R09 Spezial. The first can of Bloxygen paid for itself several times over by allowing a single bottle of DD-X to last and last.

BMbikerider · Apr 11, 2013

If you cannot get glass containers of EXACTLY the right size, then get the nearest larger size and fill the bottle with glass beads to bring the fluid level up to the top of the bottle. It does work, I've been doing it for years.

AgX · Apr 11, 2013

pierods said:
Yes but I have no use for the Agfa developer they contain, so when they break (they are soft plastic) I will have to re-buy the Agfa developer and re-toss it...

If they break they would be no good alternative for your storage either.

agnosticnikon · Apr 11, 2013

This might take this discussion in another direction, but back in the late 70s there was a product (called Prolong?) that was sold in camera stores. It was in a spray can of nitrogen or nitrogen mixture of some sort, with a horizontal nozzle that could be directed into the developer bottle. Because nitrogen was heavier than the air in the bottle, it would displace the oxygen at the surface of the developer, keeping it from oxidizing. It worked really well, but I haven't seen it in years. I know you can buy liquid nitrogen now, and a spray bottle, but I think they're rather pricy, and I don't know if it would work.

AgX · Apr 11, 2013

Nitrogen is practically not heavier than air, it is air, basically. Nitrogen is hard to compress.
What you refer to was most probabably a CFC, which are easy to compress, but got banned due to effect on the ozone layer. They had been surpassed in photography by butane. And now the new alternative to the late CFCs has been discussed in another thread.

agnosticnikon · Apr 11, 2013

Yeah, nitrogen is the main gas in our air, but I still remember the can saying something about nitrogen on it. It was probably a mix of gasses that replaced the oxygen in the bottle. I do know that quite a few labs used nitrogen injected into their chemical tanks as a preservative.

waynecrider · Apr 11, 2013

In the refrigeration trade I get "B" size tanks of nitrogen gas. According to the MSDS it's 99% pure and I know it has no water vapor in it. You buy the tank and trade it in when it's empty. Lasts forever but pricey to start. Refills are cheap.

I use 250ml amber glass bottles and divide my developer between them. When developing I might use anything from 50ml to half of it depending on the developer. I flood the left over with nitrogen. The bottles are available from Photographers Formulary. B&H carries the Formulary bottles but I'm not sure which ones without looking.

sepiareverb · Apr 11, 2013

Bloxygen is cheap, and Argon is heavier than air.

pierods · Apr 12, 2013

BMbikerider said:
If you cannot get glass containers of EXACTLY the right size, then get the nearest larger size and fill the bottle with glass beads to bring the fluid level up to the top of the bottle. It does work, I've been doing it for years.

Yes, I tried that, but they are a problem when you try to pour the developer into the tank.

noacronym · Apr 12, 2013

You know what I'd like to hear instead of all these schemes which I'm sure I'm just as guilty of?: "I'm shooting up so much film, my developer doesn't last a week". That's what I want to hear.

MartinP · Apr 12, 2013

agnosticnikon said:
I do know that quite a few labs used nitrogen injected into their chemical tanks as a preservative.

Perhaps you are thinking of gas-burst agitation, which was used for stirring up the tanks when I worked with dip-and-dunk processing machines for C41 and E6. Nitrogen itself won't prevent oidation unless you completely replace the air (which is +/- 80% nitrogen anyway) in an impervious chemical container - in practice, that would be awkward to do reliably and consistently.

The heavier-than-air-gas preservative products work by forming a gaseous "lid" over the liquid chemical.

sepiareverb · Apr 12, 2013

noacronym said:
You know what I'd like to hear instead of all these schemes which I'm sure I'm just as guilty of?: "I'm shooting up so much film, my developer doesn't last a week". That's what I want to hear.

Depends on the week. I use different developers on different films, and even on the same film if shot at a different ISO. Picky yes, but sometimes developers sit around. The weather in NE Vermont can be sleet one day and full sun the next. Oh, that's today and tomorrow...

AgX · Apr 13, 2013

MartinP said:
The heavier-than-air-gas preservative products work by forming a gaseous "lid" over the liquid chemical.

That is a wrong assumption.
By time the gases mix. The heavier-than-air concept though makes substituting air by the inert gas more easy, at its best you only need as much inert gas as air-volume to be replaced.

pierods · Apr 16, 2013

I would rather not bother buying gasses, spraying and all that stuff.

In the meantime I found, thanks to tips you guys gave me, a wine preserver that insulates from oxygen:

http://www.amazon.com/Platypus-Plat...66106444&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=platypreserver

It seems that it does the trick - keeps oxygen out and it doesn't leak.

mr rusty · Apr 16, 2013

And I found this which I am sure will work just as well on developer as wine. Wine doesn't stick around long enough in our house to need preserver!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Private-Preserve-Wine-Preserver/dp/B009ZV6I60/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kh_3

Developer storage - not glass

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