Developer keeping qualities

rafeg · Apr 9, 2007

Hello all,
I've just registered here and have a question regarding long term keeping
qualities of developer stock. I don't do a great deal of photography for reasons of time, health and other commitments but do like to break out my Nikon FE and, sometimes, a pinhole Zero 2000 from time to time. Since film processing is intermittent I need a stock that will keep well for months or a year or so without degrading. The ones I wonder about are Rodinal and HC110 but you may be able to point me to others. Also, how do these devs compare with each other as to image quality, grain etc? I mainly use FP4, Plus X, Tri X. I don't have a darkroom so all shots are scanned and worked up on the computer (does this make me out of place here)? In the past when I was more active I used D76 diluted 1:3 but had no need to keep it for long. It's been quite a few years now
and I'm due to retire next year. Maybe I'll have more time then!? Any guidance you would care to give would be most welcome. Thanks Bob

Konical · Apr 9, 2007

Good Morning, Bob,

I'm in a somewhat similar situation. When I was teaching and involved in yearbook work and other school photography, I processed a lot of film on a fairly regular basis. D-76 was my usual developer for a long time; similarly, Dektol served me well as a print developer, and I still use it occasionally.

Since I've retired, my processing is, like yours, intermittent. I've found that liquid concentrates suit my purposes well, even though they are generally more costly than powered chemicals. HC-110 concentrate seems to last forever. T-Max Developer also seems to have good keeping qualities. I rarely use Rodinal, but the consensus seems to be that it lasts almost indefinitely. For printing, I use LPD liquid; it dies (or at least changes color) a lot faster, but, since it comes in quart bottles, I don't have much wastage.

Konical

reellis67 · Apr 9, 2007

I started with Rodinal and Diafine because I didn't know how much I would be processing - turn out, quite a lot. Still, I've stayed with Rodinal from the beginning - once I saw what I could get I never stopped using it. I've never used HC-110, but I believe that they are different types of developers, or at least they give different types of results. I also have Diafine, but I can't remember when I last used it.

In the last year I have discovered that I can mix what I need as I need it by keeping the chemicals on hand, and now I mix up a few different developers as I need them. Something like D-76 can be made as needed if I remember correctly, all you need is a scale and a few bulk chemicals which last a long time in dry form (with a few exceptions of course).

My preference is to use one or two films and develop them in two or three different types of developers. I find that Rodinal works well at different dilutions as well as with stand development - each of which give different results. I also like Perceptol, which keeps for some good time in a well sealed bottle with little or no air. Rodinal, however, is, in my experience, as close to eternal as you can get. Mine must be three years old now and the color of morning tea but it still performs like a champ and I can't see the difference in the results that I get now compared to those I got when the bottle was new.

- Randy

Jim Jones · Apr 9, 2007

I agree with Konical about HC-110 concentrate and T-Max developer. My HC-110 concentrate in the partly full original container is 20 years old. My working dilution of T-Max is many months old and stored in a partly full container. Both are still good. This might be stretching things for a more critical photographer, though.

rafeg · Apr 9, 2007

Many thanks for your comments. Seems my original ideas are about right. I'll try whichever is easier to obtain.

gainer · Apr 10, 2007

Rodinal stock turns dark with age, but the darkness is the result of oxidation of a very small part of the solution, it being a very strong dye, so color is no indication of age. HC110 stock is dissolved in organic solvents that do not appreciably ionize until water is added, and so it also lives until you kill it. There are some homebrews designed by some guy named Gainer that have this property. Look up PC-TEA for instance.

Ian Grant · Apr 10, 2007

Oih Gadget some of us prefer decent TEA, like Darjeeling or Assam, and we drink it to while away the time when we develop our films.

But you make a good point about keeping properties, and I must try out some of your formulæ, before I go back on my travels.

Like Jim Jones I also have 20 year old (liquid) developers in my darkroom that appear as new, if anyone had said that at the time I bought them I'd have thought they were idiots

Ian

gainer · Apr 10, 2007

I like to drink tea also, with a little ascorbic acid in it. At my age, I can't tell much difference from tea with lemon. 1/4 tsp (about a gram) of ascorbic acid is fairly generous daily dose of vitamin C.

gbroadbridge · Apr 22, 2007

ID-11 stock lasts well

Today I opened a litre jug of ID-11 I created from dry chems almost a year ago (21/3/06) and it looks the same as when new.

It was stored in a full airtight squeeze bottle.

It works as new (I was expecting it would be rubbish)

Unfortunately not the same with the fixer, which had separated into a floating layer of crystals and smelt really on the nose.

Graham.

Roger Hicks · Apr 22, 2007

As well as the legendary Rodinal keeping qualities, two-baths generally keep well. So does Ilford DD-X, even in half-full bottles: many months, in my experience. And although I've not tried it myself, Ed Buziak used the same bottle of PMK concentrate for at least 3 years.

Cheers,

R.

gbroadbridge · Apr 22, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
As well as the legendary Rodinal keeping qualities, two-baths generally keep well. So does Ilford DD-X, even in half-full bottles: many months, in my experience. And although I've not tried it myself, Ed Buziak used the same bottle of PMK concentrate for at least 3 years.

Cheers,

R.

My bottle of Rodinal (purchased around 3 years ago) has managed to turn from a pale peach colour to a seedy brown. I check on it occasionally and then squirt some butane in there before closing it up. In another couple of years I'll run some tests to see if the longevity of this developer is exxagerated or whether it is all true.

Unfortunately, none of my current films (or maybe it is me) particularly like the grain (acutance) imparted by this developer, so the bottle remains available for test I shoot FP4+ (120) and HP5+ (135) and I like full tonality with minimal grain

Regards
Graham.

gbroadbridge · Apr 22, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
As well as the legendary Rodinal keeping qualities, two-baths generally keep well. So does Ilford DD-X, even in half-full bottles: many months, in my experience. And although I've not tried it myself, Ed Buziak used the same bottle of PMK concentrate for at least 3 years.

Cheers,

R.

Sorry Roger, missed your comment about two bath fixing.

My comment re fixer going bad was in relation to the concentrate, not a working solution. My concentrate went bad and had floating crystals and smelt really really bad. This indicates that the Sulphur has gone out of solution and ruined the remaining concentrate.

Sorry aboout the confusion.

Graham.

Roger Hicks · Apr 22, 2007

gbroadbridge said:
Sorry Roger, missed your comment about two bath fixing.

My comment re fixer going bad was in relation to the concentrate, not a working solution. My concentrate went bad and had floating crystals and smelt really really bad. This indicates that the Sulphur has gone out of solution and ruined the remaining concentrate.

Sorry aboout the confusion.

Graham.

Dear Graham,

No, it was I who was unclear. I meant two-bath developers such as the Leica 2-bath I used in the 70s. Sorry.

Cheers,

R.

reellis67 · Apr 23, 2007

The bottle or Rodinal in question has only about 20ml left now and like I said, it looks like my morning tea.

gbroadbridge said:
Unfortunately, none of my current films (or maybe it is me) particularly like the grain (acutance) imparted by this developer, so the bottle remains available for test I shoot FP4+ (120) and HP5+ (135) and I like full tonality with minimal grain

FP4+ is my primary film (~%95+) and Rodinal (1:100) is my primary developer. It could be that I don't see a problem because I use medium and large format film, but I never found grain to be a problem with this combination. HP5+, though, I would certainly agree on, especial in small films, but it does fine with 4x5 and 8x10 in Rodinal.

- Randy

PhotoJim · Apr 23, 2007

My PMK stock solution is 7 years and counting (although I've almost run out of it), so it really does keep. No observable change in function or colour at all.

Ilford used to sell 600 mL packages of ID-11. I found these perfect because it was enough to do 4 rolls of 135-36. It kept forever in powder form and kept a few months in liquid form. Of course, now you could mix up the equivalent, D-76, from raw chemicals to the same effect.

gbroadbridge · Apr 23, 2007

reellis67 said:
The bottle or Rodinal in question has only about 20ml left now and like I said, it looks like my morning tea.

FP4+ is my primary film (~%95+) and Rodinal (1:100) is my primary developer. It could be that I don't see a problem because I use medium and large format film, but I never found grain to be a problem with this combination. HP5+, though, I would certainly agree on, especial in small films, but it does fine with 4x5 and 8x10 in Rodinal.

- Randy

Hiya Randy

You should shoot the same scene on two pieces of film (use 4x5 as it'll be cheaper

Develop one in Rodinal and the other in stock or 1+1 ID11 or D76

I'm prepared to bet you can see the difference in grain formation without having to use a microscope.

Which one works for you is subjective.

Graham.

RH Designs · Jul 10, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
As well as the legendary Rodinal keeping qualities, two-baths generally keep well. So does Ilford DD-X, even in half-full bottles: many months, in my experience.

I can confirm this - I just developed some HP5+ in DD-X that was opened a year ago, and the negs are perfect. And Rodinal still works when it's almost black ..

dancqu · Jul 10, 2007

rafeg said:
Hello all, Since film processing is intermittent I need
a stock that will keep well for months or a year or so
without degrading. Bob

Has anybody mentioned Home-Brew. A few chemicals
and, for myself at least, a good scale, and a few inexpensive
sundry pieces of lab gear are all that is needed. Many developers,
fixers, hypo clearing agents, toners, bleaches, and more can be
compounded at home in small quantity. It isn't just developer
that goes bad with time. Dan

aldevo · Jul 11, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
As well as the legendary Rodinal keeping qualities, two-baths generally keep well. So does Ilford DD-X, even in half-full bottles: many months, in my experience. And although I've not tried it myself, Ed Buziak used the same bottle of PMK concentrate for at least 3 years.

Cheers,

R.

I have a bottle of DD-X that was opened 32 months ago, is presently half-full, and successfully processed a roll of Fortepan 100 last week.

Both Kodak T-Max and Ilford DD-X have excellent keeping properties.

I am also using a bottle of Patrick Gainer's PC-TEA formula that I formulated 29 months ago. Use of TEA instead of H20 as the solvent in the stock solution imparts long life to this developer and I feel this developer outperforms both T-Max and DD-X except where speed is concerned where it seems to be about 1/3 stop or slightly more slower than both.

Developer keeping qualities

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