developer fogging paper

thisismyname09 · Jul 6, 2010

I was making some prints this morning and after about 3 prints I noticed everything that came out of the developer was really dark; not a "this is exposed too much" dark, more like a "this paper is fogged" dark. I developed an unexposed piece in total darkness and it came out fogged. I know it isn't the paper because I just made a few more prints with a different developer and they came out fine.

I'm using fotokemika emaks fiber paper (grade 2) and E-72 (formula #84 in the darkroom cookbook, a developer that's supposed to be like dektol except it uses more environmentally friendly developing agents like ascorbic acid and phenidone.) The first few prints came out fine as far as I can tell, but after just 3 prints the solution got muddy looking and is somehow chemically fogging the paper; something tells me it should last longer than that. I have no idea where to start trying to figure out what the problem is.

clayne · Jul 6, 2010

I think you've successfully narrowed it down to your developer.

Rick A · Jul 6, 2010

And, um, how old was the first batch of developer?

thisismyname09 · Jul 6, 2010

Yes, obviously, but what would cause it to do this? I just mixed it yesterday with brand new chemicals I got the day before that from the Formulary. It's also pretty extraordinary that it would fog the paper just by chemical action. It also seems to have stained the bottom of my stainless steel beaker. Something is really wrong here.

srs5694 · Jul 7, 2010

How long are you developing? I discovered that E-72 does a good job with Foma's VC RC paper up to a time of about 1:15, but going much beyond that time produces fogging much like you describe. I haven't done extensive tests to see if E-72 does the same with other papers or if Foma's paper shows the same characteristic in other developers; I just cut back my development time to be sure I wasn't overdeveloping the paper.

If what you're seeing has a similar cause, it could be that the developer has become a little more active as it's been used, or maybe the temperature has gone up just enough to shorten the optimum development time.

There is also, of course, the possibility of a new light leak in your darkroom. Maybe a safelight got bumped, opening it up just enough for a bit of white light to get out; or furniture in the next room might have been moved, letting more light through an opening used for radiators or plumbing.

pentaxuser · Jul 7, 2010

I'd contact the supplier. There's no way that dev should behave this way. If Ilford MG dev did this and it was just part of the "fun " of using that dev, it would be the last I bought ever again.

pentaxuser

thisismyname09 · Jul 7, 2010

srs5694 said:
How long are you developing? I discovered that E-72 does a good job with Foma's VC RC paper up to a time of about 1:15, but going much beyond that time produces fogging much like you describe. I haven't done extensive tests to see if E-72 does the same with other papers or if Foma's paper shows the same characteristic in other developers; I just cut back my development time to be sure I wasn't overdeveloping the paper.

Only 1:15? That could be the problem. The source said to use like dektol, which I usually use for 3 minutes. Perhaps I could just add some more KBr to keep my times consistent.

pentaxuser said:
I'd contact the supplier. There's no way that dev should behave this way. If Ilford MG dev did this and it was just part of the "fun " of using that dev, it would be the last I bought ever again.

Unfortunately I can't blame the supplier as I mixed the developer myself. And if there were something wrong with the formulary's chemicals I think someone else would notice before me.

pentaxuser · Jul 7, 2010

OK I don't want to sound like a marketing man for Ilford MG or Nova dev which I have also used but I have never noticed this effect when the print was left in longer than the 1 min stated. Shouldn't developers develop to completion and if this achieved after say 1:30 secs to 2 mins then leaving the print longer makes very little difference?

I hope you have discovered the problem and solution but it does sem temperamental to say the least as a developer.

pentaxuser

fotch · Jul 7, 2010

Long live Dektol.

5stringdeath · Jul 7, 2010

thisismyname09 said:
I'm using fotokemika emaks fiber paper (grade 2)

What color and how bright is your safelight?

fschifano · Jul 7, 2010

I don't know where you are or what the weather conditions are like. I'm in the NE US and the past few days have been hot - very hot. I have seen chemical induced fog on enlarging papers because the developer got too warm. Looks just like what you described, and it adds up. Developer sits in a tray in a hot room for a while and gets warm enough to start causing problems in the time it takes to make a few prints. Could be that it's hot in your darkroom, and this particular developer is prone to causing fog at elevated temperatures.

thisismyname09 · Jul 7, 2010

pentaxuser said:
OK I don't want to sound like a marketing man for Ilford MG or Nova dev which I have also used but I have never noticed this effect when the print was left in longer than the 1 min stated. Shouldn't developers develop to completion and if this achieved after say 1:30 secs to 2 mins then leaving the print longer makes very little difference?

iirc, if you leave a print in the developer long enough, it will turn completely black, regardless of exposure; that is "to completion," so developing a usable print isn't necessarily a "to completion" process.

5stringdeath said:
What color and how bright is your safelight?

it can't be the safelight because I tried a sheet in total darkness and still got fog.

fschifano said:
I don't know where you are or what the weather conditions are like. I'm in the NE US and the past few days have been hot - very hot. I have seen chemical induced fog on enlarging papers because the developer got too warm. Looks just like what you described, and it adds up. Developer sits in a tray in a hot room for a while and gets warm enough to start causing problems in the time it takes to make a few prints. Could be that it's hot in your darkroom, and this particular developer is prone to causing fog at elevated temperatures.

It could be this, though for a different reason. The water I used to dilute the developer may have been colder than room temp. If I make a test strip using cold developer and it warms up by the time I go to make a real print, that print would probably end up horribly overdeveloped.

I'm going to try again in a little bit.

Steve Smith · Jul 7, 2010

pentaxuser said:
Shouldn't developers develop to completion and if this achieved after say 1:30 secs to 2 mins then leaving the print longer makes very little difference?

That is my understanding too. Generally I leave the print in the developer for twice the time it takes for the image to appear, darken then not appear to get any darker.

Steve.

clayne · Jul 7, 2010

Steve Smith said:
That is my understanding too. Generally I leave the print in the developer for twice the time it takes for the image to appear, darken then not appear to get any darker.

Steve.

A factor of 2? That's pretty damn short. I usually use between 4-6 and then pull it. Ends up working to around 2:30-3:30 depending on exhaustion.

Steve Smith · Jul 8, 2010

clayne said:
A factor of 2? That's pretty damn short.

Well. At least x2. It's difficult to say at which point the timing starts!

My point was that you don't need to take it out of the developer as soon as the recommended development time is over.

Steve.

patrickjames · Jul 8, 2010

My experience with Fotokemika Varycon paper and a custom formula that uses AA and Phenidone is that the developer needs quite a lot of restrainer compared to other papers. I am not a chemist, so I don't know why this is, but it is unique to Varycon paper. I would have to assume that you are having a similar problem with Emaks. I have also found that Benzotriazole is better in this combo than KBr.

dancqu · Jul 8, 2010

For Get Some thing?

Although it does not seem likely in this
case a lack of bromide can lead to
fogged paper. Dan

Gerald C Koch · Jul 15, 2010

You may have got some fixer into the developer tray either from a splash or the wrong tongs, etc. Try things again avoiding cross contamination.

developer fogging paper

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