Thank you for doing that comparison.
I think I prefer the D23 slightly over the PMK, which is a surprise.
Me, too. The D23 image looks smooth in a nice way, PMK makes it look "over sharpened"...
Thank you for doing that comparison.
I think I prefer the D23 slightly over the PMK, which is a surprise.
You're welcome. Glad you found it interesting.Thank you for taking the time to share. That was interesting.
Recently there have been some discussions about various developers and how they act on films, and I thought I'd share an experiment I did back in January. I wanted to compare a "high acutance, compensating" developer with a very simple "average acutance, soft acting" developer to see for myself just how different the two could be.
I exposed four 5x7 sheets of Ilford Delta 100: two exposed at 64 ASA and two exposed with another half stop exposure, just so I had a choice between two exposure variations, for optimal results. One sheet of each exposure was developed in D-23 diluted 1:3 and one sheet of each exposure was developed in PMK (Pyro) at 1:2:100. The lens I used was the f7.7 Kodak Ektar 203mm.
I chose the 1:3 dilution of D-23 because literature I looked at suggested it becomes more of an acutance developer at high dilution, due to the reduced amount of sulfite in the highly diluted solution. Of course, development times become a bit long, but I found 15.5 minutes @ 70F to be acceptable. I used PMK at the standard dilution and time for Delta 100, which was 13 minutes at 1:2:100, @ 70F.
The D-23 negatives and the PMK negatives came out looking remarkably similar, aside from the PMK stain. When scanned, there was only a very small difference in the tonal scale of the PMK negs VS the D-23 negs, and in processing the images in Lightroom, I had to make only minor adjustments of the high values to result in a similar tonal range for each negative. The overall density of the negatives and the available shadow information was very similar for both negatives - they varied only in the highlight density, and that was a minute difference.
I'm guessing you'd like to know how the two developers compared as far as acutance and grain is concerned. PMK is known as an acutance developer with some compensating ability, preserving the fine details and definition of the high values while also masking grain somewhat, thanks to the Pyro stain. D-23 on the other hand - and this is why I chose it to make the comparison - is known as a "soft-acting" developer with low-to-average acutance and average (but sometimes mushy) grain. However, the negative developed in D-23 diluted 1:3 was remarkably similar to the PMK negative: very good acutance, excellent preservation of the subtle high values and crisp grain characteristics. I had difficulty seeing any significant differences in the resulting images from the two developers. There was, however, slightly better preservation of the very highest white values in the PMK negative, as expected. But the highlight information in the D-23 negative could easily have been preserved in print.
Here are some A/B comparisons of the PMK neg and the D-23 neg, at full size, and a crop at 100% to show fine detail. (The scans are uncompressed TIF files, at approximately 6000 x 8000 pixels).
The PMK images are on the left and the D-23 images are on the right.
Because these are screen captures, they don't show the resolution the full images have, so if you want to see the images at full size, the PMK image can be viewed here, and the D-23 image here. (To view at full size on Flickr, click twice to zoom)
Having used both a fair bit, I find the results consistent with what I have seen. However, the one thing PMK excels at is edge effect. What PMK does to clouds, for example, is other worldly. It's just not a great developer for 35mm where it shows more grain than I care for..
I chose the 1:3 dilution of D-23 because literature I looked at suggested it becomes more of an acutance developer at high dilution, due to the reduced amount of sulfite in the highly diluted solution.
Thank you for taking the time to share. That was interesting.
That's what I took from the exercise also. It seems to me that people sometimes attribute properties to a developer that are more imagined than real. We tend to see what we want to see - it's part of being human.Thanks for posting this @retina_restoration ; for me, this proves one more that the strong preference we may have for certain developers should be seen in the light of the often marginal differences they have in a real-world application.
Thanks. But my composition relied entirely on the lighting conditions and circumstance, not some clever use of image circle: the upper right is the shadow created by the eave of the house, and the lower right just happens to be a dark patch created by the shrubbery.More importantly - that's another particularly successful photo, very true to the distinctive/characteristic style you have developed. A pleasure to view. I quite like how you used the edge of the image circle as an integral part of the composition; I would have never thought of doing that, and it works so well here!
Thanks, I will.Just a suggestion, take a look at the photos by John Davies using FP4 developed in diluted ID11.
John Davies Photographer - home page
John Davies documentary photographs from the urban and rural environment: fine art landscape images from Europe and Japan.www.johndavies.uk.com
Fantastic comparison, thanks for sharing. And beautiful photo.
If you had the time to do a D23 1:3 vs D76 1:3 or XT3/XTOL 1:3 as above I think many people would be interested in your results, too!
Thanks. If anyone wants to do other comparison tests, I encourage them to do so. I don't often make these kinds of technical tests - I'd rather be using my time to make the photographs I want. Why don't you do that test?!
Quoting from Haist Vol1 Chapter High-Acutance Developers page #419:
"In some cases, conventional fine-grain developers, such as Kodak Developer D-76, are diluted with water to form the dilute developing solution that gives increased image edge effects, resulting in increased acutance values for the image."
You may be able to do better than 1:3 by using even more dilute developer and adding adding a suitable amount of Sodium Carbonate or Sodium Hydroxide to it. Both D-23 and D-76 work as high-acutance developers at 1+9 dilution with the added Sodium Hydroxide (about 0.5-1.0 g/l).
That's what I took from the exercise also. It seems to me that people sometimes attribute properties to a developer that are more imagined than real. We tend to see what we want to see - it's part of being human.
I was hinting at an ongoing thread where a beginner is losing sleep on whether they should prefer D23 to D76. A test like yours above should put to rest the idea that playing with developers will make a huge difference in one's photography.
I know the discussion you're referring to, yes. This is exactly why it is often recommended to "learn one film and one developer".
I was hinting at an ongoing thread where a beginner is losing sleep on whether they should prefer D23 to D76. A test like yours above should put to rest the idea that playing with developers will make a huge difference in one's photography.
I'm certain that you and I stuck to this ideal ;-) but no - I don't imagine many do. It's fine advice, but I don't expect people to actually heed it.It is sound advice and those of us who've done this for decades dispense it with good intent. But how many of us actually did this first starting this, I wonder ...
I'm certain that you and I stuck to this ideal ;-) but no - I don't imagine many do. It's fine advice, but I don't expect people to actually heed it.
To this day I still do not rely on only one or two films - there are at least 6 different films that I use regularly, plus another 4 or 5 that make an occasional appearance. But at least I can say that at this point I understand the films I use and know how to manipulate them to get results I want.
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