Developer and Selenium toning results

Hi!

I'm trying to find the different variables that plays a part in the results of toning with Selenium. I understand that the initial paper developer will affect the toning since it set a starting point of color from where the selenium start working.

But what if I use two different paper developers but both of them is making neutral tone, will toning results be different in selenium due to their difference in chemicals?

Thanks....

toner works on the silver not on developer chemistry, hence if you have two similar looking prints as far as density is concerned, you would have similar looking prints after toner process is complete as well.

vedmak said:

toner works on the silver not on developer chemistry, hence if you have two similar looking prints as far as density is concerned, you would have similar looking prints after toner process is complete as well.

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That sounds obvious. I got confused after reading peoples different results of toning with same paper and dilution. Thanks!

With selenium I usually just make my best print then compensate for the slight increase in density. And the opposite for sepia and brown toners. Isn't that correct?

Casey Kidwell said:

With selenium I usually just make my best print then compensate for the slight increase in density. And the opposite for sepia and brown toners. Isn't that correct?

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It's difficult to make that clear a distinction. Sometimes you need to do that and other times not. Among the variables going into that decision, aside from personal preference, are the paper's characteristics, and developer induced print characteristics. I've worked with papers that exhibit virtually no change in selenium except for a very slight increase in Dmax which tends to separate out the shadow details a little more distinctly. Some other papers come back out of a two step bleach and redevelop sepia toning bath with the densities lowered and others hardly changed at all. I guess all that I'm saying is to make the print the way you want it, then tone it and see what happens. Then make your corrections if necessary.

Get a Stouffer transmission step wedge and make a few identical prints of it. Put one of them aside, then tone the others in various toners and/or dilutions. Compare them with the untoned one. This will tell you all you need to know about the effects of the toners. I got this idea from Tim Rudman's toning book. It's just one of those things that make you go "doh, why didn't I think of that?"

If you don't have a step wedge, then make a wide test strip, in one second increments, making sure you get all the way to maximum black. Cut this lengthwise in several pieces, then tone all of them but one.

If I understand how toners work, the sized of the silver grain will make a difference on how toning occurs. The paper is the major contributor followed by developer. Does the dilution affect grain size? I think so since some paper developers have different dilutions for different paper tones. The best resource for this is Tim Rudman's toning book as Vlad mentioned above

Mark Fisher said:

If I understand how toners work, the sized of the silver grain will make a difference on how toning occurs. The paper is the major contributor followed by developer. Does the dilution affect grain size? I think so since some paper developers have different dilutions for different paper tones. The best resource for this is Tim Rudman's toning book as Vlad mentioned above

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I think so too, but again the paper itself is a big variable. I've used some Ilford MG IV, a lot more of Kodak's Polymax and Polycontrast papers before they went away, and far more of Adorama's own brand and Freestyle's re-labeled Foma as Arista.EDU Ultra papers - all of it in Dektol at various dilutions from the standard 1+2 to a really weak 1+4. The Ilford, Kodak, and Adorama papers behave pretty much the same no matter the dilution. The biggest difference is in the amount of time needed to fully develop the print. Paper speed, contrast, and color remain pretty much the same. The Foma papers, on the other hand, show a very distinct shift towards a warmer tone which can be exploited a little further in selenium. After running a few prints through some highly diluted Dektol, the bromide levels build up and the Foma papers go even warmer.