developer adventure coming up

I could live the rest of my life with 3 soups, Xtol, Rodinal and the versatile HC110. Heck, I could do well with any one of them! But the Spirit of Adventure has called, and I've ordered a two bottle set of Pyrocat, and a package of Formulary PMK. They should arrive shortly.

Any suggestions as to what film and format to baptize with these with?

I'm doing the same with Acros 100. Scuttlebutt hereaboots is Pyrocat is the schiznitz for the stuff. Glad to see you trying other stuff: I was a D-76/HC110 addict, then graduated to Microdol before diving into the PF catalog; never looked back. Enjoy!

Investigating new developers can be fun. But the purpose of photography is to take pictures. When you absolutely, positively have to get a particular shot it is nice to have a good work-horse of a developer you can depend on. Judging from posts here on APUG the developers you mention are not without their problems. This is why I have standardized on HC-110 and will not depend on anything else. Remember Ansel Adams admonishment that you have to become completely familiar with one film/developer combination before venturing to another.

Gerald C Koch said:

Judging from posts here on APUG the developers you mention are not without their problems. This is why I have standardized on HC-110 and will not depend on anything else. Remember Ansel Adams admonishment that you have to become completely familiar with one film/developer combination before venturing to another.

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Good advice for one and all.

I've actually done the same, Gerald. HC110 was the developer I used way back when, and if the chips are down, it's the soup I use with HP5. If I need less or more grain, I change formats. It was my go to combo in the distant past. It still works like an old pair of socks. In those days, I also used FP4 with FG7, but that's long gone. Thus my interest in Xtol with this film.

Since I got back into film 6 months ago, I've had a learning curve with unfamiliar films and developers. I've now got reasonable confidence in Fomapan 400 and FP4 in Xtol or Rodinal. But I'd still go to HP5 and HC110 because I know the combination and trust it.

What would HP5 be like in Pyrocat?

While I agree it's good to get some experience w/ one film and one developer, I've learned more by experimenting. I've also learned more from my "mistakes", and the more mistakes, the more learned. All of the above mentioned developers have their own characteristics and work better or worse w/ certain films/exposures/developing protocols. Filter choices and, strangely, your choice of camera and lens play a part in the scheme as well. I didn't like Microdol-X w/ my Canon AE-1 w/ FD 50 1.8 lens, but loved it w/ the Nikkormat and H 50 2.0. Go figure. From what I've seen on the web, Arista EDU Ultra 100 works well w/ Pyro.

D76 is wonderful for tonality, especially w/ Tri-X. Mic-X is a super sharp developer when used full strength, and is an an excellent choice if you have a lot of sky in the photo and don't want to see a lot of grain. I like it especially w/ Arista EDU Ultra 100 and the Shanghai GP3 Pan 100 films. Rodinal is a fantastic developer, very versatile, and so far has worked w/ every film I've tried it on. Some films it works better with, some not as good. How you expose your shot and how you agitate it have more to do w/ the grain than your dilution ratio, contrary to popular opinion. HC110 and Pyrocat I haven't tried yet, but I'm sure they work the same as the developers I've mentioned.

One thing Gerald points out that is spot on is that we take photographs for the pictorial content. It's easy to get infatuated w/ certain developers and forget that the image is the main thing, no matter what it was developed in. A beautifully developed picture of nothing is just that.

HP5 is superb in Pyrocat HD which is now the only film developer I use.

Ian

+1

Ian Grant said:

HP5 is superb in Pyrocat HD which is now the only film developer I use.

Ian

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+1
I also like HP5+ with PMK, but #1 choice is same as Ian's . . . HP5+ in Pyrocat HD (at least in 120 size)

moltogordo said:

I could live the rest of my life with 3 soups, Xtol, Rodinal and the versatile HC110. Heck, I could do well with any one of them! But the Spirit of Adventure has called, and I've ordered a two bottle set of Pyrocat, and a package of Formulary PMK. They should arrive shortly.

Any suggestions as to what film and format to baptize with these with?

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Why would one worry about this?

The format makes a difference, because PMK is relatively grainy with 35mm HP5+. Having decided that D-76 was better for the small format, I haven't tried Pyrocat-HD with 35mm. But for 120 and 4x5 PMK is excellent. It is a semi-compensating developer, so it prevents highlights from blowing out as they might with HC-110 for example. Recently I was getting some unevenness in open sky areas with PMK (still not sure why) so I switched to Pyrocat-HD which seems a little less sensitive. I find the results very similar. Because the two have different color stains, they print differently, but yield similar prints (I.e they need different VC settings, but you can get very similar results).

markbarendt said:

Why would one worry about this?

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Some folks do, some folks don't. I'm a curious guy!

palewin said:

The format makes a difference, because PMK is relatively grainy with 35mm HP5+. Having decided that D-76 was better for the small format, I haven't tried Pyrocat-HD with 35mm. But for 120 and 4x5 PMK is excellent. It is a semi-compensating developer, so it prevents highlights from blowing out as they might with HC-110 for example. Recently I was getting some unevenness in open sky areas with PMK (still not sure why) so I switched to Pyrocat-HD which seems a little less sensitive. I find the results very similar. Because the two have different color stains, they print differently, but yield similar prints (I.e they need different VC settings, but you can get very similar results).

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Great info. Thanks!

moltogordo said:

I'm a curious guy!

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That's actually my point, why would you narrow your search before you try them yourself?

I suppose to take advantage of others experience. Not finished learning yet, and often find it nice to have a guideline or two.

moltogordo said:

I could live the rest of my life with 3 soups, Xtol, Rodinal and the versatile HC110. Heck, I could do well with any one of them! But the Spirit of Adventure has called, and I've ordered a two bottle set of Pyrocat, and a package of Formulary PMK. They should arrive shortly.

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Ah, ... adventure awaits! This is gonna be a fun thread to follow.

I had the same mind set so I picked up Caffenol developing. Just because I can....

moltogordo said:

I suppose to take advantage of others experience. Not finished learning yet, and often find it nice to have a guideline or two.

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None of us are finished learning yet.

Do you have a favorite film or two? Films that look good to you? What's your taste?

Simply put here, "your" new developers will work just fine with any traditional B&W film. If you already like HP5 or Acros or T-Max or ...

Whatever that film is, it would seem to me a good place to start.

If you want to know how Pyrocat and PMK differ from each other and from the developers you already have, you'll need a baseline film. It might be nice to compare the apples you have in your current sauce to other apples in a different sauce, adding oranges may be fun but won't necessarily teach you how your new sauce differ from the old ones.
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markbarendt said: "If you want to know how Pyrocat and PMK differ from each other and from the developers you already have, you'll need a baseline film. It might be nice to compare the apples you have in your current sauce to other apples in a different sauce, adding oranges may be fun but won't necessarily teach you how your new sauce differ from the old ones."

Thats a good idea . . I'll start with HP5 in 120! It's my baseline film. I don't really have a baseline slow film - I've stuck with HP5 because I change formats if I need finer grain - developer is a contrast control thing.

I've read that it is the adjacency effect that makes pyro special, and that it works better on slow films. I've used both TMax 100 and FP4, but I can't say i "know" these films. They do produce better enlargements from half-frame negatives, but I don't know their characteristics like I do HP5. I use them when I want bigger enlargements from smaller negatives.

Because I use 4x5, though, this is not really a big thing . . . I can get dazzling 11x14 enlargements from these negatives with ASA 400 films.

Pyro is on a roll right now, and I'm curious.

Good plan.

There are a variety of characteristics that the Pyro type developers may bring to the table for you.

I use Rollo-Pyro and enjoy the results. What I can't say with any authority is why.

Adjacency, sharpness, curve shape, tonality, all-the-above...? IDK, and really, it doesn't matter to me.

I don't own, or care to own, the tools I'd need to figure it out. All I can say is that I like the prints, that's enough.

I'm in the old Fred Picker school of don't take anyone's word for something, test it! I use HP5+ in all formats (35, 120, 4x5) and rate it 320ASA across the board. Here's my recommendation, since you shoot 4x5: take two exposures of several scenes, and unload your holders into two separate boxes. Then develop one negative in your "standard" developer, and one in either PMK or Pyrocat. Then print the negatives and compare the results. That way you will see what, if anything, the developers do differently. Given the staining developer's compensating properties, I would make sure that in my "test exposures" I had one with a blue sky with fluffy white clouds, and one with significant highlights; those are more likely to show noticeable differences than an "average, evenly lit" scene. In my experience I see a greater difference between both staining developers and HC-110 than I see between the PMK and Pyrocat. The only tricky part when testing a new developer is finding the right development time so that you aren't thrown off by contrast differences in the negatives caused by the development times rather than the properties of the developer. (And while I suggest testing between a familiar developer and either of the staining developers, you can obviously do the same test between PMK and Pyrocat to see how they differ.)

Lots to work on . . . . I'll let y'all know what happens when the stuff arrives! Really appreciate all of the input.

My Pyrocat-HD arrived today. I've loaded a 15 - roll (I bulkload) of HP5 into two 35mm cameras, and am going to take identical pictures with them, process one in Pyrocat and one in HC110 1:63 as I normally would.

I'll have test results the following weekend.

This is what I'm used to . . . .

My baseline film has always been HP5. My baseline developer has always been HC110, and I use it at a dillution of 1:63 because the dilution produces smooth tonal gradation, nice but not excessive contrast, and reasonable developing times (12 minutes) so my results are consistent. I use HP5 pretty much always in medium format and 4x5, and I know exactly what to expect.

Here's a shot I took in February, with my Linhof Kardan, 150mm Zeiss 4.5 Tessar, and this combination, at 1/100th and f8.




When I shoot 35mm, I'm more after an "impact" that only contrast and high amounts of grain deliver for me. I used to use OLD Tri-X with Rodinal and a half frame camera. Old Tri-X is gone, and the new stuff is smooth, fine-grained and boring. I've kissed it goodby, and gone to Fomapan 400 with Rodinal, which sort of captures the "old" style I miss. But it's still fairly fine grained. Like above, I now know this combination and know what it produces. Here's a shot from last summer, Olympus Pen FT, 100mm Zuiko f3.5, illustrating the impact this combination has:




If I want fine grained, "normal" results from the miniature formats, I now use Xtol and FP4, like this shot here. Xtol allows an easy push to ASA 200 with FP4, and again, I know what to expect. This is not far removed for ancient days, when I used Plus-X and FG7, both long gone. Pentax MX, 135mm Pentax-M f3.5 lens. Xtol looks like D76 but finer grained and sharper, but the same "look". Nothing wrong with that.




Pyrocat and PMK are renowned for sharpness and highlight detail . . . so maybe one or the other will be the missing movement of my symphony, so to speak!