Develop 120 roll films in deep tanks

prado333 · Nov 4, 2021

I would like your opinions about develop 120 film using racks, basckets and deep tanks
Due the fact I have to develop 70 rolls of 120 black and white film and in my Paterson tanks can be a real pain
Opinions and advice are welcome

Kino · Nov 4, 2021

This was a common way to process large volumes of 120 "back in the day" with nitrogen burst agitation.

Here's an old thread on the subject: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/nitrogen-burst-processing.37936/

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2021

With my tall (one liter) Paterson, I can develop four rolls of 120 at a time (load two, one after the other, on each reel -- not difficult, but practice a couple times with sacrificial film before you do it with images you care about). In your case, that would still be eighteen tanks, or about nine hours (not counting drying time, since you probably don't have 70 pairs of film clips or space to hang that many rolls simultaneously). I've seen stainless tanks on eBay that would take up to eight 35mm rolls (or maybe four 120), but that's not really a step forward from four in a Paterson, and you have to work in the dark and agitated by lift, tilt, lower instead of inversion.

There may be a taller Paterson that would let you load three reels set to 120; if so, with double loading, that would get you down to a dozen loadings to get through your backlog. If you have a drying cabinet that will hold six rolls, you might be able to do all of that in one (long!) day.

Ian Grant · Nov 4, 2021

If you use deep tanks you need the right cage that takes 120 or 35mm metal reels, that's what I used in the 1970's & 80's, Perhaps costly though these days.

In more recnt years it was quite common for me to shoot 20 rollsof 120 in a sesssion, I have Paterson tanks that take 3 & 4 120 reels and found it didn't take long to process them all, it helps that I have a lot of Paterson spirals. I'd use two developing tanks at the same time, starting the second 2 minutes after the first. Using replenished Xtol speeded things up as well as I just filled the tanks from a 2.5 litre bottle which saved measuring. I guess it would take me around an hour to process 20 films. I'd also stick Paterson reels in my Jobo 2000 tanks, these are pre-Rotary so have a center column and sealable lid for inversion.

ian

Neil Grant · Nov 4, 2021

it's certainly possible, but the technique is somewhat different from using a small daylight tank.
1. your darkroom needs to really dark - especially if tens of rolls of loaded 120 are sitting around, whilst others are spooled up. Maybe develop in smaller batches. Stack the loaded spools on a plastic dev tank column, or a loose fitting T-wire. Agitate by lifting and dunking at 1min or 30 sec intervals. Use a basket if you have one. Weigh down spools to stop them floating about.
Weigh the spools down with an empty ss spool ontop. Load the films end-to-end (plastic spool)
2. Will newly mixed dev in your deep tank need to settle/season before using?
3. Stir the dev before using as it will have acquired a temperature gradient.
4. Three tanks would be normal, but you can omit 'stop' at the risk of dichroic fog. If you are only using two-tanks, make sure the fix is fresh and don't skimp on agitation when the developed film is transferred over.
5. do not be tempted to invert the deep tank.

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2021

Neil Grant said:
5. do not be tempted to invert the deep tank.

"Important safety tip, thanks Egon."

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Nov 4, 2021

Ian Grant said:
I have Paterson tanks that take 3 & 4 120 reels and found it didn't take long to process them all, it helps that I have a lot of Paterson spirals. I'd use two developing tanks at the same time, starting the second 2 minutes after the first. Using replenished Xtol speeded things up as well as I just filled the tanks from a 2.5 litre bottle which saved measuring. I guess it would take me around an hour to process 20 films. I'd also stick Paterson reels in my Jobo 2000 tanks, these are pre-Rotary so have a center column and sealable lid for inversion.

It's also possible to load two 120 rolls to a single Patterson reel. So if OP has a 4 reel Paterson tank, then he can develop 8 rolls together. And if he can use two tanks at the same time like you do, then 16 rolls! Of course one needs to worry about the capacity of the working solution.

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
It's also possible to load two 120 rolls to a single Patterson reel. So if OP has a 4 reel Paterson tank, then he can develop 8 rolls together.

Worth noting that four 120 reels in a Paterson needs a full 2 liters of developer to cover. That's a lot of developer to handle at one time; I don't know that I'd want to run two tanks at a time if they're that big, but 70 rolls is only nine tanks at that capacity.

removed account4 · Nov 4, 2021

prado333 said:
I would like your opinions about develop 120 film using racks, basckets and deep tanks
Due the fact I have to develop 70 rolls of 120 black and white film and in my Paterson tanks can be a real pain
Opinions and advice are welcome

HI prado333
I used to do film reels in a deep tank but I didn't use racks and baskets, I bent a few coat hangers and made the flower on the bottom and slipped the spools on the wire Depending on whether it was 35mm or 120 I was able to process sometimes 8 or 10 reels at once ( or more ). it's tricky ... you have to learn how to agitate, and not put the film near the sides or bottom of the tank where sludge builds up and barely move them up and down to agitate them. If your tanks aren't big enough or you aren't careful you it ends up being more trouble than it's worth seeing you really can't reshoot time that passed.
The last time I had 30 or 40 rolls film to process I bought a few extra stainless steel tanks and reels and just spent the time using hand tanks to manually batch process all the film. I staggered the tanks and did it 2 at a time started the 2nd group about a minute or 2 after the first, it took about 3 or 4 days... and the film came out fine. At the same time I also filled FT tanks with sheet film and "Stan Developed" them in print developer for 30 mins, came out perfect too !

Good Luck!
John

AgX · Nov 4, 2021

With the Jobo 1500 series tank elements you can develop easily 20 type120 films in one run in one tank. Drawback would be the initial costs.

The only alternative I see is building deep, tight tanks from PVC sheets and making a hanger frame, best full length.
Maybe you still find such used somewhere on the net.

AgX · Nov 4, 2021

Well, a alternative to classic deep tanks would be employing standard reels as above, but no longer a dayligh tank and no stem. Instead use as deep tanks PVC sewage tubes with at one end caps. Sink the stapled reels into the tubes by means of rod.

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2021

Even with 2-up loading on Paterson type reels, however, you still need 2 liters for 8 rolls; and three pipe tanks, and some means to keep the tanks upright (even flat end caps may not really be flat, after all).

AgX · Nov 4, 2021

I referred above even to 20 films in one run. And I thought of this too with those sewage tubes.
These sewage tubes, unless given a top cap too and being inverted as with daylight tanks, must be kept upright. But so must be selfmade tanks from plastic sheet. I do not see a difference nor a problem.
Yes, with all my proposals one needs a rather big initial volume. But in this very case at least 3 runs would be needed, so there is some chance for replenishment or unreplenished re-use. But I admit with a big initial volume and rather few runs likely the economy of a bath is not as great as using a tiny amount with replenishing. But this then would be the price of large batch processing. You can't have shower without getting wet...

Paul Howell · Nov 4, 2021

AgX said:
Well, a alternative to classic deep tanks would be employing standard reels as above, but no longer a dayligh tank and no stem. Instead use as deep tanks PVC sewage tubes with at one end caps. Sink the stapled reels into the tubes by means of rod.

This is what I did when I was processing many rolls of 35mm and 120, I had T rods that I could load up to 8 rolls of 120, off the top of my head I don't recall how tall the PVC pipe was. Not only did I have one end capped, but I epoxied the capped end to a larger cap for a base for additional stability. I used 6 long tubes, one for dev, one for stop, one for fix, clearing agent and photoflow and a 6th with water intake at the bottom for wash. I had to stand on a step stool when agitating, which is messy as the rod had to be pulled out at least half way to make sure you are getting a good exchange of chemistry. If using plastic reels you need to put a clip of some kind or a SS reel so the reels will drop the bottom of the tube without effort . As over the years I have developed fewer and fewer rolls in one batch I move to a old Unicolor film tank and reels, takes a lot less chemistry. Downside is that the tanks are so tall it is hard to maintain temp at 68 or 70F degrees, they take up a lot of space, including storage space when not in use and must be used in total darkness.

AgX · Nov 4, 2021

Yes, storage of single-bath tanks is a issue I even did not consider.

Donald Qualls · Nov 5, 2021

AgX said:
Yes, storage of single-bath tanks is a issue I even did not consider.

If you choose right, or have (access to) a small lathe, you could use a next size smaller cap as a floating lid.

AgX · Nov 5, 2021

Yes, but what Paul was referring too was, that once you did the processing you sit there with up to six tanks (be them rectangular or cylindrical), whereas with the Jobo tank approach you only need one such tank. For the former approach one might build pyramidal or conical tanks, to stack them when not in use...

mshchem · Nov 5, 2021

2 gallon or 3 1/2 tanks, I've never tried plastic reels in the cages. Deep tanks are awesome.

Paul Howell · Nov 7, 2021

When I had full size dark room, a thirds single garage with a false wall and AC and a 12 foot long sink storage was not much of problem, I did have floating caps made from 1/2 marine plywood, easy to cut out with a skill saw. When I moved to a townhome and a converted bathroom I gave away my tanks and started to use a Unicolor film drums.

tballphoto · Nov 7, 2021

if you have to do it at one time it sounds like one needs to get a 5 or 10 foot section of 4" ABS pipe.. stack them reels in real good, cap it off, and agitate.

Or one could get those large 12x14" lidded rubber maid food trays, put reels in that, and fill with solution.

Sure one shot developer is a pain,,, but if you use Rodinal i dont THINK it would be too bad in consumption

foc · Nov 8, 2021

It's great to see that MacGyver is alive and well.

Donald Qualls · Nov 8, 2021

Bezoar said:
Sure one shot developer is a pain,,, but if you use Rodinal i dont THINK it would be too bad in consumption

Even better if you make your own Parodinal and buy your acetaminophen from Costco. Let's see -- about $14 for 1000 tablets (= 500 grams), $7 or so for a can of drain opener lye (which will make a dozen pints of Parodinal, maybe more -- it'll clump up and get discarded before you use it all), and $25 for ten pounds of sodium sulfite (again, enough you likely won't live long enough to use it all if you only make Parodinal with it). At today's prices, a liter of 1:100 working solution costs about ten cents, presuming your tap water is good enough to use for diluting (it probably is).

Matroskin · Mar 4, 2023

I have recently bought Paterson tank for 2 120 films. What is the best way to agitate it?

koraks · Mar 4, 2023

Matroskin said:
I have recently bought Paterson tank for 2 120 films. What is the best way to agitate it?

You can't go wrong with manual inversions at frequent intervals (30 seconds ~ 3 minutes). Lots of guidelines how to do this on the web.

Matroskin · Mar 4, 2023

koraks said:
You can't go wrong with manual inversions at frequent intervals (30 seconds ~ 3 minutes). Lots of guidelines how to do this on the web.

Do you mean flipping?
And will I get non uniform developed film in a case I will use an the agitator stick to rotate the center column.

PS For the one 120 film I use stick to agitate and pretty glad with results.

Develop 120 roll films in deep tanks

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