Determining what density Zone VIII should be

[JeffD]

I have read that St. Ansel would develop film such that a zone VIII exposure would yield a density of 1.2.

I assume that was because that yielded a trace of tone in the graded paper that was available to him, and which he was using at the time.

I use Variable Contrast paper, and have not settled on exactly how long I should develop my film, or, in other words, what criterion I should use in determining what density level I should shoot for in my development.

Any thoughts? Any other VC paper users shooting for a markedly different zone VIII density other than 1.2?

 

[KenM]

I think that with current papers, you need a negative with a bit more contrast to handle the longer paper scale. You can determine how close you are wrt. developing with a step wedge. I'm not sure if you're using sheet film, but what I've done in the past is make a Zone X in camera exposure with a 21-step wedge in contact with the negative. If you can print Zone II with a 'just-noticeable' difference from the Zone I exposure, *and* you have the proper tonality in the upper zones, then you've got the correct development. Adjust accordingly - if the highlights are too dark, increase development - too light, decrease development.

In short - let your prints tell you how to develop your negatives.

 

[smieglitz]

I have read that St. Ansel would develop film such that a zone VIII exposure would yield a density of 1.2.

I assume that was because that yielded a trace of tone in the graded paper that was available to him, and which he was using at the time.

I use Variable Contrast paper, and have not settled on exactly how long I should develop my film, or, in other words, what criterion I should use in determining what density level I should shoot for in my development.

Any thoughts? Any other VC paper users shooting for a markedly different zone VIII density other than 1.2?

I think the first thing you should do is define what Zone VIII means to you in relation to other zones and tones. Does Zone VIII have any texture or is it just tone? Is Zone IX paper base white or is it just slight threshold gray and Zone X paperbase?

Once you specify that, then run an exposure test using a stepwedge on the paper at the proper proof time (minimum exposure time to produce maximum black) in order to determine what the threshold density of the paper is and this will provide a guide for your camera exposure tests. It could very well turn out that you decide Zone VIII is threshold light gray, tone without texture, and that the negative density that produces that tone using a standard printing contrast (e.g., #2 contrast filter with VC paper) coincidently is 1.20 net density. It also could turn out to be higher or lower than 1.20. IOW, you need to specify the entire set of parameters rather than just the value Ansel may have used for a single zone.

Joe

 

[Max Power]

Hey Jeff,

I use 35mm and MF so I have to 'pick and choose' what I can use the ZS for, but what works for me is essentially that; my Zone VIII is 1.2 above my Zone I. In practical printing terms, this has allowed me, in my own work, to span a larger gap between the two when working with VC paper.

YMMV,

Kent

 

[photobackpacker]

Hi Jeff:

Your target densities will vary based upon the type of enlarger you are using. Ansel provided the following advice in The Negative:

Diffusion Enlarger Net Density (density-(base+fog))

Zone I .09 to .11
Zone V .65 to .75
Zone VIII 1.25 to 1.35

Condenser Enlarger (Net Density)

Zone I .08 to .11
Zone II .60 to .70
Zone VIII 1.15 to 1.25

These levels were set based upon the threshold level yielding a density of .10 (Zone I) and the last hint of texture in the highlight area (Zone VIII.) Most photographers I have worked with are placing important shadow detail no lower than Zone III and keep important, textured highlights in the range he called Zone VII.

For my own work (using diffusion enlarger), I prefer to hold my Zone VIII densities in the 1.25 to 1.3 range as there is considerable fall off in detail above that.

Based upon a "Characteristic Curve", I use the following densities as range mid-points for each of the zones:

I .10
II .18
III .31
IV .48
V .70
VI .94
VII 1.14
VIII 1.30
IX 1.40

I use these to check my field technique. I will record where I intended subject elements to fall on the negative and will check on how closely I achieved the target density. This takes only seconds and yet provides a perpetual film test that will alert you the moment something has changed in your string of critical variables in the negative creation process.

Hope this helps.

 

[Donald Miller]

I have read that St. Ansel would develop film such that a zone VIII exposure would yield a density of 1.2.

I assume that was because that yielded a trace of tone in the graded paper that was available to him, and which he was using at the time.

I use Variable Contrast paper, and have not settled on exactly how long I should develop my film, or, in other words, what criterion I should use in determining what density level I should shoot for in my development.

Any thoughts? Any other VC paper users shooting for a markedly different zone VIII density other than 1.2?

The only correct way to determine Zone VIII density is to check the exposure scale of your printing paper when exposed with your enlarging equipment.

In my practice. I tend to have my negative density range around 1.35 when I print with a condensor enlarger on Seagull VCFB. Now I am not saying that my Zone VIII density is 1.35...I am saying my negative density range is 1.35