Depth of field at the negative; requirements for sharp focus

RobC

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when it comes right down to it, most images on film are resolution limited by the film itself combined with the lighting contrast ratio on it. Result is that actually achieving 100 lp/mm on film is extremely difficult regardless of whether your film or lens are potentially capable of much higher resolution figures cos they can't do it if conditions aren't right for it, which they aren't the vast majority of the time.
 

wiltw

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^
...which is why lens tests performed with Plus-X are not as high in resolution as those with Tmax
Kodak Plus-X has f50 = 100 lp/mm, Kodak T-MAX 100 has f50 = 125 lp/mm
 

cliveh

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The OP mentions depth of field of the enlarger lens, but have others have mentioned it is depth of focus. But what on earth is this thread about?
 

wiltw

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The OP mentions depth of field of the enlarger lens, but have others have mentioned it is depth of focus. But what on earth is this thread about?


...which is why I brought up the points in post 47.

Op said, "For prints that are sharp from edge to edge we require film flatness and the alignment of the enlarger negative stage, baseboard and lens to be satisfactory. What precision do we need?"

If the negative in the negative stages is considered to be the 'object plane', the negative itself and its flatness is considering the deviation of the subject from the Object Plane focus and Depth of FIELD, and the image is projected and captured on photosensitive material (the paper emulsion on the easel) where the Depth of FOCUS.
The term 'DoF' (ambiguous) was being applied in the earlier posts, and some of the posts talked about small distances which would be applicable to 'Depth of Focus' measurement. For example, "depth of focus is usually way more than required. For the example above it would be + or - 1 mm using my figures..."
If what I described as 'Context A' is indeed the correct 'school solution', I will, after the fact, admit to being to blame for bringing up Depth of FOCUS (although not at all the first in the thread to do so) and wrongly drawing the analogy of negative in enlarger to film at focal plane of camera. But if 'Context B' is the correct 'school solution', then I will stand by my first effort to call it 'Depth of FOCUS', not 'Depth of Field'.
 
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removed account4

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The OP mentions depth of field of the enlarger lens, but have others have mentioned it is depth of focus. But what on earth is this thread about?

it might be to see how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop ?
 
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tedr1

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It is very simple. I began the thread to make a technical point which I did in post #1. RobC attempted to discredit my work and there was a long series of exchanges between him and me. Everybody joined in and a lot of people talked without anybody listening.
 

Nodda Duma

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You guys. I'm an optical designer and the weaving path of this discussion is so nitpicky that it's almost silly.

OP asks a good question. My professional answer would be: Flat enough that the image of the grain at your baseboard is in focus from corner to corner. Don't waste time and angst trying to calculate it when you can measure it. You're not designing an enlarger, you're trying to use one. Check focus, adjust alignment, and go make focused prints.
 
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RobC

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That's a downright lie. You went on an unprovoked attack and tried to discredit what I wrote in the previous topic and now you expect me not to argue about it. Do you know what hypocracy means.
You said
You said
You said
Quoting figures an order of magnitude smaller than the truth spreads disinformation and leads people astray. This thread puts the record straight.

You said
Count on RobC to use rudeness inappropriately
If that's not an unprovoked attack I don't know what is. And you don't expect me to defend myself. And you don't think people can't see the deceit in you claiming its me doing the attacking. I've merely been defending myself. You're severely deluded.
 
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tedr1

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It is spelt hypocrisy. I have made no attacks, simply stated some facts. My statement in post #1 is available for checking by anyone. The photographic community understands the concept of circle of confusion. You chose to not understand it. That is where things stand.
 
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Tim Layton

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I offer that you make some prints at whatever settings you wish, and then view them at the proper viewing distance as part of your decision-making process. In the end, that is all that really matters.




 

Gerald C Koch

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What I was attempting to say, I guess not too clearly, is that the depth of focus is determined by the aperture of the lens. However there is a limit as to just how far you can reduce the aperture before aberrations become a factor. Obviously this is also determined by the quality of the lens.
 

Gerald C Koch

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[QUOTE="wiltw, post: 1780815, member: 28732[/QUOTE]
The term 'DoF' (ambiguous)

Not if it is read in conteXt.
 

Old-N-Feeble

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Let's not forget the effective aperture becomes smaller as magnification increases. So the effective aperture with the lens set at f/5.6 and 4x magnification is different than the same lens set at f/5.6 and 8x magnification. Hmm... what's that... 2 stops difference? Close enough anyway.
 

ic-racer

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The "m" magnification factor in the equation in post #15 takes this into account; it hasn't been forgotten.
 

wiltw

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I have made no attacks, simply stated some facts. My statement in post #1 is available for checking by anyone.
Unfortunately in this NOT-face-to-face internet world, we can state a fact, perhaps even color or enlarge the text of key words or phrases (or not) and it can be interpreted by some reading it as an 'attack' and react to said post in a negative manner. I am dealing with such a reaction in another forum -- not related to photography -- myself right now! And some individuals tend to have this unnecessary interpretation and reaction more than others, for whatever reason, and I am dealing with such a reaction in that forum.

Folks, we need to relax a bit, and if there are not insults or responses like "that was a stupid" accompanying the comment, just probably the response was not intended to be viciously negative. Responding folks need to reread their posts just to see of a bit of negative attitude shows through even inadvertantly. But such is life.
 

wiltw

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[QUOTE="wiltw, post: 1780815, member: 28732
The term 'DoF' (ambiguous)

Not if it is read in conteXt.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately not necessarily true, context does not make a wrong term right...

Some folks talk about 'smaller aperture' while they thing of an f/stop like f/2 in the pursuit 'more 'bokeh'.
There we have TWO wrongly used terms, and it is clear what they are thinking but mispeaking (twice). And then there may be the question of what to change in order to make the statement right per convention:
  • 'f/number' and not 'aperture', or 'larger' rather than 'smaller' ('smaller f/number', or 'larger aperture'...which one to change; in this case we know what normally is associated with 'shallower DOF', the 'larger aperture')
  • 'depth of out-of-focus blur' and not 'bokeh'
 
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