Delta 3200 rated at 800 ISO in D76?

Juan Valdenebro said:

I wonder, Matt: do you prefer any of those two films for some precise tasks? I find them very different films, tonally speaking...
And by the way, I do work on films a lot, instead of considering the choice of film defines tone... You needed to imagine me, as someone I'm not, and that's interesting, for you to think, I mean...

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I haven't used them enough to really form a reliable preference.
And I never really thought that you were a person who believed that the choice of film alone defined tone - my comments were directed more at those who expect to find the solution for most problems by just switching films.
I do a fair amount of split tone printing to adjust shadow, mid-tone and highlight rendition. So it is in that stage of the process that I go when I'm trying to solve any problems.

You're right Matt, and I'm fine, thanks...
You implied I tend not to consider the printing stage a relevant tonal stage: and you may be right... Now you made me think: it's possible I'm a bit like that...
Yes, printing is the stage: any negative, good or bad, will need a good printer to optimize tone... Maybe I'm kind of away from that thinking because that's the stage I'm learning yet...
Anyway, I apologize: I read too fast and I didn't get your generally speaking clarification right in the beginning...
Thanks again.
Now I'll have to go to sleep feeling guilty, a bad reader, a bad printer, and a schizoid...
Good night

Hey guys. I posted this in another thread but haven't seen a reply yet, so figured I'd ask here, as well.

I mixed up my first batch of D76 today and the powder itself was brown. It doesn't expire for another couple of years but I'm worried it might have oxidized, unless the "new" D76 I keep hearing people reference is a darker color? Attaching a blurry video but you'll be able to see the color.

DH_Studio said:

I mixed up my first batch of D76 today and the powder itself was brown. It doesn't expire for another couple of years but I'm worried it might have oxidized, unless the "new" D76 I keep hearing people reference is a darker color? Attaching a blurry video but you'll be able to see the color.

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It is a shame, but presently some Kodak chem has QC issues, reportedly paper and chem section owned by Kodak Alaris (Not Eastman Kodak that manufactures film) was sold to a chinese company and perhaps they hired Harry Potter, or Mr Potter was hired by Alaris, who knows?... I feel bad when I see they generate problems to someone starting with something that should be straight.

A recent batch of Dektol paper developer I mixed also had brown color... it worked perfectly... I used it... IMO paper developer is less critical because we (usually) develop to completion and we can repeat the print, but film development is quite more critical and what you damage is permanent, so please dump it, sorry for the inconvenience.

Personally, I would not use much that developer, in film photography what you need (specially when starting) is a very reliable feedback, and you don't need uncontrolled variables in the middle.

D-76 is a great developer you may use in the future, but for know what I'd do is trying equivalent ID-11 (https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ILFORD-PHOTO-to-Kodak-equivalents.pdf)

This is how D-76 should look:

138S said:

As I understand you are experiementing... I would suggest you also try Delta 3200 at EI 1000, which is it's true ISO speed. If wanting grain then use a coarse grain developer, and adjust development time to get the result you want, this is if you don't need the 3200 speed and only a wild aesthetics. By underexposing at EI 3200 you will damage shadow detail, if you don't want that shadow detail you always can kill it in the post process time, but by exposing at EI 1000 (ISO 1000 nominal in that case) you can expect a better quaity images, while contrast and grain can be adjusted in the development.

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Okay, awesome, thanks very much for the tip. I'll give it a shot. I didn't know some developers created coarser grain than others, I'll research that.

138S said:

It is a shame, but presently some Kodak chem has QC issues, reportedly paper and chem section owned by Kodak Alaris (Not Eastman Kodak that manufactures film) was sold to a chinese company and perhaps they hired Harry Potter, or Mr Potter was hired by Alaris, who knows?... I feel bad when I see they generate problems to someone starting with something that should be straight.

A recent batch of Dektol paper developer I mixed also had brown color... it worked perfectly... I used it... IMO paper developer is less critical because we (usually) develop to completion and we can repeat the print, but film development is quite more critical and what you damage is permanent, so please dump it, sorry for the inconvenience.

Personally, I would not use much that developer, in film photography what you need (specially when starting) is a very reliable feedback, and you don't need uncontrolled variables in the middle.

D-76 is a great developer you may use in the future, but for know what I'd do is trying equivalent ID-11 (https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ILFORD-PHOTO-to-Kodak-equivalents.pdf)

This is how D-76 should look:

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Thanks, I'm going to toss it and I ordered more. B&H, Adorama and Freestyle Photo are all on backorder, Samy's Cameras is sold out...maybe that's why companies like Mel Pierce are selling oxidized garbage online (for double the price). I found another seller on Amazon, so hopefully this batch is in better shape. I don't know enough about developers yet and which have what characteristics, going to read up on that. I know a lot of people like the liquid concentrates that last forever and you extract with a syringe and mix one-shot. Might give one of those a try next.

Juan Valdenebro said:

DH, what Craig says is true: for such low contrast you'll be better using the times for 1600...
Possibly 7-8 minutes in D-76 stock.

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Thanks Juan, when the new envelope comes Friday that's exactly what I'm going to do. Appreciate all the help!

Craig75 said:

well extra exposure + extra development = increased contrast + increased grain.

dont be afraid to give it some extra time in the tank for the effects you are looking for - you have a load of lattitude

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Alright, thanks Craig. I didn't realize some developers also have certain characteristics (like increased contrast or sharpness) so I still have a lot to learn. I think D76 was what I used in school so just went with what I know but going to experiment with some others, as well.

jawarden said:

I don't think you need to bang it so aggressively or so often but different strokes for different folks. When in doubt I follow the manufacturer's directions for film and chemistry. For D3200 Ilford recommends fairly slow inversions and doesn't mention tapping, banging, stomping or throwing ;-) :

"Intermittent agitation is recommended for use in spiral tanks and deep tanks. With spiral tanks, invert the tank four times during the first 10 seconds, then invert the tank four times again during the first 10 seconds of each further minute."

I give a firm tap on the table to dislodge bubbles before initial agitation and that's it. (That's Kodak's recommendation from TMax 400 documentation and it works well for me.)

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Great, thanks jawarden. This was the first video I saw of someone tapping that aggressively, being new to this stuff I wondered if that's the way everyone "in the know" does it.

DH_Studio said:

I don't know enough about developers yet and which have what characteristics, going to read up on that. I know a lot of people like the liquid concentrates that last forever and you extract with a syringe and mix one-shot. Might give one of those a try next.

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Just take a look at chapters 3 and 4, it is a great introduction: https://silveronplastic.files.wordp...ookbook-3rd-ed-s-anchell-elsevier-2008-ww.pdf

Then, when you can, acquiring The Film Development Cookbook you will get a master in that. For practical sensitometry/metering, Beyond the Zone System book is a great recommendation.

DH_Studio said:

Okay, awesome, thanks very much for the tip. I'll give it a shot. I didn't know some developers created coarser grain than others, I'll research that.

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You may make bracketings, when starting or when learning a new film you may shot an scene at several exposures, with some interesting scenes, if you shot that frame at 1/1000, for testing, also shot another two at (say) 1/500 and at 1/2000. Mainly exposure is what concerns to shadow detail, and development time what concerns to contrast. Still if you scan then you adjust contrast easily in Photoshop, if you use the real ISO film speed, metering in manual mode, those areas that are under -3 in spot metering mode will be destroyed, those areas in the scene the spot meter says that from are -2 to -3 will usually take some degradation, what is at -1 won't take much degradation... When pushing will you sacrifice shadow detail. If you push 2 stops then shadows at -2 will be very degradated, you loss latitude in the shadows...

negative film can be overexposed, no problem at +3, with slides is different, highlights are easily blown.

There are several factors influencing the grain, a principal one is the solvent effect. The more sulphite (solvent) the developer contains the finer the grain, but you get slight lower sharpness, an exception is Xtol, delivering fine grain and great sharpness. If you use diluted developer then also solvent effect is a bit lower.

Some developers like Rodinal provide no solvent effect with coarse grain, but you can always add sulphite to adjust the grain to your taste.

DH_Studio said:

Alright, thanks Craig. I didn't realize some developers also have certain characteristics (like increased contrast or sharpness) so I still have a lot to learn. I think D76 was what I used in school so just went with what I know but going to experiment with some others, as well.

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Everyone will have their own theories on developers etc but if i were you - stick to one film and one developer and change one variable at a time - the time, the exposure and see what happens. Change too many things at once and you wont know whether youre coming or going. (From experience!)

You should be able to get first rate results with d76.

Oh boy, I don't agitate like that at all....But if I ever used a four reel tank that's the way I would do it. I always use two 2 reel tanks, one in each hand. More even muscle development.