Delta 3200 in NON perforated 35mm? What's it for?

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

I just noticed this at B&H Photo...

I was excited at first and about to jump at buying a bulk load of 3200 delta when I realized it was non-perforated.... so, what's it for? Re-loading 828 film rolls or something?

Dr Croubie · May 25, 2014

Punch-your-own, add some paper, and spool it into 126?

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
Punch-your-own, add some paper, and spool it into 126?

Aren't most 126 P&S used to a much slower ASA? lol.

Dr Croubie · May 25, 2014

Well yeah, but the 126 camera I've got is a fixed-aperture fixed-speed piece of $2 plastic-fantastic (my first one, think I was about 5).
So the only way to use it indoors is to use faster film, which I wanna do now, dammit.

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

Haha so go pick up that bulk and go punch it?

It might be good for 828, I've always wanted an 828 camera, just so I have an excuse to use 828 film haha.

tokam · May 25, 2014

Yep, but with most 828 cameras having fairly modest shutters you will need ND filters to tame overexposure.

Newt_on_Swings · May 25, 2014

Some film cameras can take and use unpreforated films such as the Eos 10s and elans. You can also shoot it in place of 120 films in modified cameras so you can have a sprocket less 35mm pano image.

David A. Goldfarb · May 25, 2014

Surveillance?

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

Newt_on_Swings said:
Some film cameras can take and use unpreforated films such as the Eos 10s and elans. You can also shoot it in place of 120 films in modified cameras so you can have a sprocket less 35mm pano image.

Oh!! Come to think of it... My Canon 1V might not need perforations... Hmmm

Anyone know?

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

tokam said:
Yep, but with most 828 cameras having fairly modest shutters you will need ND filters to tame overexposure.

Well D3200 is more an inside film anyway...

tokam · May 25, 2014

Good thinking 99! CHAOS won't know what hit em...

David A. Goldfarb

Surveillance?

StoneNYC said:
Well D3200 is more an inside film anyway...

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

tokam said:
Good thinking 99! CHAOS won't know what hit em...

David A. Goldfarb

Surveillance?

Let me just take my shoe off so I can call B&H and get to the bottom of this...

Dr Croubie · May 25, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Oh!! Come to think of it... My Canon 1V might not need perforations... Hmmm

Anyone know?

Now you've got me thinking too, so I checked all of my 35mm cameras. The only one without a sprocketed wheel is my EOS 3, although you'd need at least one hole on the leader to get it started.
I do know that a 3 has an infrared frame counter, but I don't know if it reads the film markings or the sprockets as they pass.
The 1V does not have an infrared counter (so you can actually use IR film without it fogging), but I don't know what it uses instead...

tokam · May 25, 2014

Got a feeling the infra-red counter did indeed count sprocket holes. There is no other feature on a sprocket less
film. The film rebate markings are exposed onto the film when it is sliced / diced and packaged and aren't visible / detectable
until the film is processed.

Hatchetman · May 25, 2014

It is a special order item and you have to buy 20 rolls! I'd be interested in 1 roll.

Oren Grad · May 25, 2014

Dr Croubie said:
The 1V does not have an infrared counter (so you can actually use IR film without it fogging), but I don't know what it uses instead...

The 1V does use an IR counter, it's said to be "shielded" somehow to make it IR-film-safe:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-ir/

It wasn't obvious to me what this means, so I just took out a 1V and an Elan (100) body to compare. The 1V has one diode embedded deep in a square-ish frame. The Elan looks as though it has two diodes covering a larger, elongated area, with more room for the light to bounce around. Perhaps that's enough to make the difference.

In any case, it seems as though non-perforated film wouldn't work in a 1V.

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

Oren Grad said:
The 1V does use an IR counter, it's said to be "shielded" somehow to make it IR-film-safe:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-ir/

It wasn't obvious to me what this means, so I just took out a 1V and an Elan (100) body to compare. The 1V has one diode embedded deep in a square-ish frame. The Elan looks as though it has two diodes covering a larger, elongated area, with more room for the light to bounce around. Perhaps that's enough to make the difference.

In any case, it seems as though non-perforated film wouldn't work in a 1V.

Gotcha, thanks. Won't work well in my AE-1 either as the frame counter needs the sprockets.

Also I'm not buying 20 rolls!! Lol

AgX · May 25, 2014

The AE-1 (as all A-types) need the sprocket-wheel to transport the film.

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

AgX said:
The AE-1 (as all A-types) need the sprocket-wheel to transport the film.

No, only the initial hole... I could make a small hole, just to hook the film, one hooked it's just wound up, the additional sprocket is a frame counter.

AgX · May 25, 2014

In these type of cameras the take-up spool is friction-clutch driven. The primary transport is done by the sprocket wheel.

I never checked it, though it might be the friction is strong enough to tear the film out of the cassette, through the film channel and over the teeth of the sprocket-wheel.

During advancing the load on the clutch would rise, this should be checked too.

Truzi · May 25, 2014

I've run unperfed microfilm through my Sears KS-2 (Ricoh XR-7) with no problems. The backing plate keeps the film flat. The sprocket-wheel moves with the advancing mechanism, so the counter works and the advanced stops/locks when it should.

The take-up spool is friction, and combined with sprockets in the film, makes sure the film advance is more-or-less consistent via the sprocket-wheel. With unperfed film, the only issue for me is the frame spacing gradually gets larger.

AgX · May 25, 2014

By now I learned of tree models/families of classic cameras from three manufacturers where such a transport by the take-up spool over the sprockets worked.
So it seems fair to advise to give this a try.

As long as the re-wind knob turns during advancing, all is ok.

StoneNYC · May 25, 2014

Thanks, I would give it a try if it were just a roll, not 10 or 20 cans!

I'm guessing the B&H wholesale buyer made a mistake and meant to purchase the perforated and that's why it's a minimum, he wants to move it out! Lol

nyoung · May 25, 2014

Back in the 90s a friend who used unperfed 35mm school picture cameras used to load his leftover roll ends into carts and shoot it in a medium to low end Minolta. Sadly, I don't remember the camera model number.

AgX · May 25, 2014

NON perforated 35mm? What's it for?

-) microfilm cameras

-) surveilance cameras

Over here. As idicated above there also were

-) longfilm portrait cameras

Delta 3200 in NON perforated 35mm? What's it for?

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