Delta 3200 expensive to develop

fretlessdavis · Mar 6, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Overexposing and shortening your developing time is exactly the opposite of what you should do with Delta 3200. Normal (EI 1,000) to under-exposing is ideal, and develop it way longer than you think.

Yup, I know that-- I guess I'm used to a wide tonal range. The grain didn't bug me, but it seemed short on range and low on detail vs. what I've seen it doing. I exposed @3200, and developed at standard times for that exposure.

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2014

You might be right, Thomas but my reading of Simon Galley's reply is that shooting D3200 at its box speed merits normal pricing. Ilford gives times for box speed processing and when I was new to B&W processing at home I bought a D3200 film and in my ignorance shot it at box speed and processed it according to Ilford times which is what the OP's lab seems to do in the same way Ilford does it in its lab but at no extra charge.

Like you I think he was "robbed" by being charged 3 times the price of "normal "B&W" Unless anyone can produce good reasons for this triple price for D3200 at box speed I'll conclude that the reason for this price is simply because "the lab can"

pentaxuser

Poisson Du Jour · Mar 6, 2014

The lab may not be processing it, but outsourcing to another lab that does, hence the drip-pricing. This is a common practice in labs that do not have darkroom facilities. My pro-level lab charges $27 for B&W processing with any choice of developers and other details, but the work is outsourced.

RattyMouse · Mar 6, 2014

Poisson Du Jour said:
The lab may not be processing it, but outsourcing to another lab that does, hence the drip-pricing. This is a common practice in labs that do not have darkroom facilities. My pro-level lab charges $27 for B&W processing with any choice of developers and other details, but the work is outsourced.

The lab doesnt have a bathroom??

My lab offers developoing in D-76, DD-X, XTOL, HC-110, TMAX, Adonal, and D-96. All for about $3/roll. A few dollars more per roll if you want scans.

Simon R Galley · Mar 7, 2014

In answer to your questions :

We develop at box speed 3200

We develop in ILFORD DD ( A professional replenishable version of DDX )

We only charge a £ 2.00 supplement when customers require puxshing or pulling, range -3 to + 3 stops

We develop in a REFREMA dip and dunk machine...called Rupert.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Athiril · Mar 7, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Simon,

What do you consider the 'normal' speed for Delta 3200? And when does it become pushing/pulling?

Just curious.

- Thomas

At the lab I work at, I switched everything over to Xtol Replenished 24 degrees celsius, with other developers for certain things, usually Xtol stock for Delta 3200. Price is the same for B&W except push/pull, I presume Delta 3200 to be shot at 3200 unless stated otherwise, a customer would have to be more knowledgeable of the product to shoot 1000 (and inform us) then someone who picks it up, and shoots 3200 because that's what it says.

ericdan · Mar 7, 2014

I actually shot it at box speed (3200iso)

AgX · Mar 7, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Interesting replies but for the OP I am not sure we are any nearer answering his question about why the lab has charged nearly three times its normal B&W processing price for D3200.

pentaxuser

I assume there are three scenarios:

-) The lab runs a hanger processor all day and a "weird" film would take up a whole run on its own and block other processing.

-) The lab runs a hanger processor all day and gets enough weird ones to form a batch on its own. This however makes logistics a Little bit more complicated and does not allow first-in-first-out offers.

-) The lab only runs a hanger processor sporadically. Then a extra run would have not much effect except for extra handling.

ericdan · Mar 7, 2014

Rich Ullsmith said:
Wow, $15.20 is more than halfway to a PMK Pyro kit from the formulary. That and a quart of TF-4 fixer will take you a long way down the road.

I should really look into that. I want to shoot some grainy black and white and thought Delta3200 would be great for that, but not at that cost.

cmacd123 · Mar 7, 2014

AgX said:
I assume there are three scenarios:

-) The lab runs a hanger processor all day and a "weird" film would take up a whole run on its own and block other processing.
-) The lab runs a hanger processor all day and gets enough weird ones to form a batch on its own. This however makes logistics a Little bit more complicated and does not allow first-in-first-out offers.
-) The lab only runs a hanger processor sporadically. Then a extra run would have not much effect except for extra handling.

If they are running a dip and dunk line, the tech loads the film on hangers and the hangers are picked up by the machine. the hangers may bet picked up and moved to the next slot every 30 seconds. The Tanks are big enough that the film gets put in the same tank long enough torun the standard time. next cycle it goes in teh stop and a cycle or two later goes in the fix. Generally all types of film can run together so the tech just keeps loading hangers until the batch is loaded, and the hangers end up in the drying cabinet where the film is taken out and matched up to the order form.

If you have D3200 the developing time is longer so the machine has to be slowed down,it might cycle once a minute. So the Machine has to be adjusted, the one roll loaded and then the tech has to wait until the film gets to the dryer before the machine can be set to "Normal" (same as Push or Pull Processing.) The wash may have to be on for all this time.

if they use a more manual setup, the d3200 also has to be done as a batch of one.

Robert Ley · Mar 7, 2014

If you are going to shoot B&W film, you should learn to process the film your self. I don't think that I have ever sent a roll of B&W film to a lab. Color film is another story as time and temperature need to be tightly controlled although many labs can screw that up. As more labs close, your ability to process your own film will become more important. As several labs closed in my area I started to process my own C-41 when I shot 4x5 and found that it was so easy that I process all my my C-41 in a Jobo CPA.
When you send your film to a lab, you abdicate your control of the final image.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 7, 2014

If you process it yourself, it's no more expensive than any other film to process.

MattKing · Mar 7, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
We develop in a REFREMA dip and dunk machine...called Rupert.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Made my day

mklw1954 · Mar 7, 2014

Delta 3200 shot at 3200 requires 10.5 minutes in D76 stock so it is not a significantly longer processing time.

Faster speed films have more silver content, which explains why they cost more, so maybe the higher cost is related to disposal cost, either for silver recovery (assuming they recover silver) or increased cost to the local sewage treatment plant for silver discharge.

As mentioned, developing your own is worthwhile. And develoing your own color is worthwhile and not difficult. Only the 3.5 minute developer step requires a certain constant temperature and that's easy using a water bath (no expensive equipment required). I've been doing it for years.

AgX · Mar 7, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
We develop in a REFREMA dip and dunk machine...called Rupert.

Simon gave names to all these processors,

in the beginning, in the beginning.

Simon gave names to all these processors,

in the beginning, long time ago.

Saw a dip-and-dunk machine built by a nerd

called it Rupert.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 7, 2014

Most labs use replenished developers, which means they are at somewhere between 1:1 and 1:2 dilution activity wise.

My time for D3200 in D76, after my initial tests at EI 1600 is about 11 minutes. Next roll will confirm. At 3200 I'd probably go 13-14 minutes. I have found that D3200 often gives low contrast at the recommended developing times, and to exhibit what something like HP5+ would at the same recommended times I must extend developing time quite a bit. The film handles a lot of extra development too without problems.

mklw1954 said:
Delta 3200 shot at 3200 requires 10.5 minutes in D76 stock so it is not a significantly longer processing time.

Faster speed films have more silver content, which explains why they cost more, so maybe the higher cost is related to disposal cost, either for silver recovery (assuming they recover silver) or increased cost to the local sewage treatment plant for silver discharge.

As mentioned, developing your own is worthwhile. And develoing your own color is worthwhile and not difficult. Only the 3.5 minute developer step requires a certain constant temperature and that's easy using a water bath (no expensive equipment required). I've been doing it for years.

David Nardi · Mar 9, 2014

It's best to develop B&W film yourself if u can. I machine develop all my own E6, C41 and B&W in a Jobo Autolab. B&W film generally needs different processing times based on the film type, ISO and developer combination. Colour film does not. It all gets the same treatment unless you push it. B&W rolls of the same type can be run together, whether it's Kodak Tmax 400 or Ilford Delta 3200. To justify a 3x price increase is kinda ridiculous. High speed film generally sits in the developer for 11-15 minutes vs 5-7 minutes but that doesn't make it any more complicated. It's up to the lab how they price their "time". I say do it yourself or find another lab.

ericdan · Mar 11, 2014

I forgot to mention it also takes them 3 full weeks to process ilford delta3200. That should give them plenty of time to collect a lot of rolls.
Considering Tokyo is one of the big film capitols and how many rolls they sell next door, it is really surprising that it's so expensive.

Dr Croubie · Mar 11, 2014

Sounds to me like they're posting it off somewhere.
I remember back in the 80s that we had to post off Kodachrome and 126 films from my instamatic to Sydney to get processed, that took about 3 weeks...

ericdan · Mar 11, 2014

They probably are. They posted my Portra 400 to Kodak for processing, same with TriX. All my Fuji actually goes to Fuji. This is with Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku.

Nuff · Mar 11, 2014

ericdan said:
They probably are. They posted my Portra 400 to Kodak for processing, same with TriX. All my Fuji actually goes to Fuji. This is with Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku.

On the opposite side of that road where you buy film (not where you drop it off to process). If you go to level 6, you can get everything you need to process BW film. I highly recommend LPL Steel tanks, that's where I got mine and they are easy to load. Paterson tanks are cheaper, but a pain. All the chems are there too...

Since in your profile you only mention you do 35mm film, you will want this tank: http://www.yodobashi.com/LPL-エルピーエル-L40111-ステンレス現像タンク35mm-リール付/pd/100000001001058695/

It does one roll at a time. They have a tank which you can use for 1 x 120 and 2 x 35mm, but it doesn't come with reels and ends up being more expensive. But I like it, it saves time when processing more than one roll at a time.

And changing bag: http://www.yodobashi.com/エツミ-ETSUMI-E-544-チェンジングバッグ-中/pd/000000110399900184/

Xmas · Mar 11, 2014

Nuff said:
On the opposite side of that road where you buy film (not where you drop it off to process). If you go to level 6, you can get everything you need to process BW film. I highly recommend LPL Steel tanks, that's where I got mine and they are easy to load. Paterson tanks are cheaper, but a pain. All the chems are there too...

Since in your profile you only mention you do 35mm film, you will want this tank: http://www.yodobashi.com/LPL-エルピーエル-L40111-ステンレス現像タンク35mm-リール付/pd/100000001001058695/

It does one roll at a time. They have a tank which you can use for 1 x 120 and 2 x 35mm, but it doesn't come with reels and ends up being more expensive. But I like it, it saves time when processing more than one roll at a time.

And changing bag: http://www.yodobashi.com/エツミ-ETSUMI-E-544-チェンジングバッグ-中/pd/000000110399900184/

yea the kit is cheap but most is free if you join a camera club when some one converts to DSLR...
Ilford and Kodak have data sheets on home processing
Rodinal at 1+100 lasts a while
5222 cine reel new or recans cheaper than 135 cassette
I got my enlarger for free as well but needed to remove roof panel to get it home...
changing bag will do instead of dark room...

RattyMouse · Mar 11, 2014

ericdan said:
I forgot to mention it also takes them 3 full weeks to process ilford delta3200. That should give them plenty of time to collect a lot of rolls.
Considering Tokyo is one of the big film capitols and how many rolls they sell next door, it is really surprising that it's so expensive.

Surprising it takes so long too. I could not believe how long film processing takes in Tokyo. Really sad.

cmacd123 · Mar 13, 2014

ericdan said:
I forgot to mention it also takes them 3 full weeks to process ilford delta3200. That should give them plenty of time to collect a lot of rolls.

I would be wondering if perhaps there was not a better place to take it? if the firm you are dealing with is acting as a post office they are adding costs and delay. Japan is after all the place that invented the One Hour film service business and I would be surprised if there was not still a shop somewhere, that actually specializes in film processing.

ericdan · Mar 14, 2014

Tried that yesterday and I am surprised how easy it is. I got a few cheap rolls for testing and it worked out well. I used ID-11 from Ilford with Ilford stop bath and fixer. Everything was very easy, except for loading the plastic reel. You're right, I should've gotten the metal one...

Delta 3200 expensive to develop

fretlessdavis

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Delta 3200 expensive to develop

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