Delta 3200 expensive to develop

ericdan · Mar 6, 2014

Hi,
I just dropped my first roll off for to the lab and was surprised that they charged 1,550 Yen (15.20 USD) just to develop it.
Usually black and white film costs 550 yen. What is so special about this one?
I shot at box speed, too.

Thanks!

RattyMouse · Mar 6, 2014

ericdan said:
Hi,
I just dropped my first roll off for to the lab and was surprised that they charged 1,550 Yen (15.20 USD) just to develop it.
Usually black and white film costs 550 yen. What is so special about this one?
I shot at box speed, too.

Thanks!

My lab charges extra to develop Delta 3200. It all depends on what ISO value you shoot it at. I am guessing that most labs run their developing at ISO 100 or 400 most commonly. After that it becomes "special order". I shot my Delta 3200 at ISO 1600 and they charged $1 more for a total of $6 to develop it.

Now I do my own film and pay at most $3 per roll if I use DD-X. Much less for other developers.

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2014

Mmmm I wonder if the lab really does anything that much different that justifies three times the price. I'd certainly want to ask the question of it and see how convincing its answer was.

Anyone think of good reasons? The OP can make his list from them and see if the lab uses the same list

pentaxuser

Dr Croubie · Mar 6, 2014

What did you shoot it at to be "box speed"?
It says '3200' on the label, but it's actually 1000, they just call it '3200' a) because it can be easily pushed to 3200 and beyond, and b) it sounded good for marketing.

But frankly, if you're going to shoot such a nice film as delta3200, be thankful that your lab sounds like they actually know what they're doing with it. Better than paying half that for someone to run it through an autolab without looking and give you back blank film...

darkosaric · Mar 6, 2014

Hi ericdan,

for 2-3 rolls that you will pay to lab you can buy used equipment on ebay and develop at home. With changing bag you don't need darkroom. It is very easy and economical.

regards,

Athiril · Mar 6, 2014

ericdan said:
Hi,
I just dropped my first roll off for to the lab and was surprised that they charged 1,550 Yen (15.20 USD) just to develop it.
Usually black and white film costs 550 yen. What is so special about this one?
I shot at box speed, too.

Thanks!

Got to be processed separately from other films due its usually longer time in most developers. Chemistry wise there is no more cost, productivity wise, unless there's plenty of other Delta 3200 to be processed, it's more costly in productivity and time.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

Athiril said:
Got to be processed separately from other films due its usually longer time in most developers. Chemistry wise there is no more cost, productivity wise, unless there's plenty of other Delta 3200 to be processed, it's more costly in productivity and time.

Exactly. If they process lots of film, only a few rolls are going to be Delta 3200. Most other films can be processed at similar times, so you might have four rolls going through per hanger. But if there's only one roll of Delta 3200, that whole hanger has just one roll of film on it, and for a fair bit longer than normal film. At EI 3200 the Delta 3200 needs a LOT more time than other films. Some processors have a maximum time that the hanger will actually stay in the developer, and if the developing time exceeds what's normally available, the person processing the film has to move the rack by hand in the dark (I have witnessed this myself), and it's not a nice thing to have to do.

So, not only does it take longer (push processing), but it also occupies the developing bath so that during that time no other film can be processed. That extra time is what you're paying for.

I would maybe recommend getting a film processing tank and start doing film at home. It pays for itself very quickly, and if you learn it well you will likely get better quality too.

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2014

I'll make an assumption here then ask a question:

The assumption is that the lab uses one developer only for all B&W films.

The question is: What does the lab do that is different? Does it usually wait and run several films through at once and pick an average time( assuming that there are several different films to be processed) which in most cases would be the case or does it run through each film separately if the times differ by more than say 30 secs as this might make a difference to each film's correct processing?

If it's the latter then the only difference I can see is that the D3200 shot at box speed might take say 8 mins more. Does 8 more mins equate to 3 times the price?

If its the former and usually it processes a mix of films for which the developing times are close but D3200 has a quite different time then OK it has the productivity cost of single processing but this may be nothing at all if there are slack times in the day when the processing doesn't otherwise run.

Largely curiosity on my part but I cannot quite get my head round a 3 times increase in price. Interestingly AgPhotolab in Birmingham, England processes trad B&W films but I couldn't find anything to say that D3200 processing differed from its standard price.

Any U.K. APUGers have any knowledge of Agphotolab or any other labs price differentials for D3200?

pentaxuser

Rich Ullsmith · Mar 6, 2014

Wow, $15.20 is more than halfway to a PMK Pyro kit from the formulary. That and a quart of TF-4 fixer will take you a long way down the road.

jun · Mar 6, 2014

ericdan said:
Hi,
I just dropped my first roll off for to the lab and was surprised that they charged 1,550 Yen (15.20 USD) just to develop it.
Usually black and white film costs 550 yen. What is so special about this one?
I shot at box speed, too.

Thanks!

I don't know what lab did you sent for processing but generally B&W film process are getting very expensive in "Japan".
It is not because of "Delta 3200" rather all black & white film processing.
However I know that Yodobashi may charge 1550 yen for Delta 3200 and TMZ which I think it is ridiculous without push, but NOTE that they may charge you 2350 yen for push processing Delta 3200!!!
That is insane!
If you use so called "pro lab" to process B&W film, they will probably charge you more than 1000 yen even with other films like T-MAX films, etc. (no push or pull)
That is the way it is.
The "pro lab" that I occasionally use for processing (via mail), charges the most for the B&W films, then C41 films and the least for the E6 films.
Yes, the cheapest is E6 films!
So I use the pro lab mentioned above for E6 processing (488 yen approx 4.8 USD per one roll of 120 E6 film)
If you think that over 1000 yen is too expensive for B&W films, the only way left is to process by yourself.

Simon R Galley · Mar 6, 2014

The ILFORD UK Lab does not charge extra to process DELTA 3200
we do charge £ 2.00 extra for pull or push processing.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

Simon R Galley said:
The ILFORD UK Lab does not charge extra to process DELTA 3200
we do charge £ 2.00 extra for pull or push processing.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Simon,

What do you consider the 'normal' speed for Delta 3200? And when does it become pushing/pulling?

Just curious.

- Thomas

Jeff Searust · Mar 6, 2014

I develop rolls including 3200 at home with minimal equipment and usually wash in the bathtub rather than going to my darkroom. The price of all the equipment to do it NEW is about $50 and another $30 for a first set of chemistry -- I can do somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 rolls with that much chemistry -- making the price under 50 cents a roll -- Why anyone would take black and white film to a lab I don't know.

fretlessdavis · Mar 6, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Simon,

What do you consider the 'normal' speed for Delta 3200? And when does it become pushing/pulling?

Just curious.

- Thomas

Interested in that, too--

Box speed is 3200, but true speed is 1000-- do you process at 1000 unless otherwise noted, or 3200 unless otherwise noted?

Also, what developer?

I don't really shoot enough high speed film, and don't stock developers that are particularly suited to pushing, so Delta 3200 would be one I would consider sending out...

darkosaric · Mar 6, 2014

fretlessdavis said:
I don't really shoot enough high speed film, and don't stock developers that are particularly suited to pushing, so Delta 3200 would be one I would consider sending out...

Best results from delta 3200 I got with Tmax developer (not exactly developer for pushing) - from 35mm I have really nice prints 30x40cm size.

Developing times I use with delta 3200 are standard from digital truth - but with one stop extra: if I shoot iso 1600 - I develop for iso 3200, if I shoot iso 3200 - I use development time for iso 6400.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

darkosaric said:
Best results from delta 3200 I got with Tmax developer (not exactly developer for pushing) - from 35mm I have really nice prints 30x40cm size.

Developing times I use with delta 3200 are standard from digital truth - but with one stop extra: if I shoot iso 1600 - I develop for iso 3200, if I shoot iso 3200 - I use development time for iso 6400.

Delta 3200 - I have successfully developed it, at EI 1600 and EI 3200, in the following developers: Ilfotec DD-X, Kodak HC-110, and Agfa Rodinal 1+25. I have two rolls of it at home, and am going to prove to myself that it will look amazing in D76 too.

It is a film that requires a lot of developing time to generate enough contrast. It is a fairly low contrast film, but that just means we have to develop it longer to compensate. When we push process to 1600 and 3200, the low contrast of this film is what saves a lot of the shadow values.

I have a few rolls of TMax 3200 and Delta 3200 that I have shot of Minneapolis and St Paul over the years, and developed in Rodinal, which I print to 16x20 inches (cropped), and I will eventually print up the whole portfolio as a series. I love how those prints look, and only wish I could print them even larger.

To get back on track, it is no more difficult to develop Delta 3200 than any other film, but it does take longer, and it interrupts the 'normal' work flow a little bit. Even so, at about 3 times the price of normal black and white film, which the OP paid, is way too much for push processing.

fretlessdavis · Mar 6, 2014

darkosaric said:
Best results from delta 3200 I got with Tmax developer (not exactly developer for pushing) - from 35mm I have really nice prints 30x40cm size.

Developing times I use with delta 3200 are standard from digital truth - but with one stop extra: if I shoot iso 1600 - I develop for iso 3200, if I shoot iso 3200 - I use development time for iso 6400.

I've pretty much settled on D76 1:1 and 1:3 as my go to developer, which doesn't really work for very fast films or pushing. 80% of what I use is FP4+, with an occasional couple rolls of Fomapan or HP5+.

I have the opportunity to shoot the inside of a living cave in a few weeks, so I may just spring for a small quantity of a developer that works well with Delta 3200.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

fretlessdavis said:
...settled on D76 1:1 and 1:3 as my go to developer, which doesn't really work for very fast films or pushing.

Don't discount D76 until you try to maximize the potential of it. D76 1+1 should work just fine, but you have to develop it for a long time. Expose a roll at 3200 of an average contrast scene, and do clip tests, developing a few frames at a time.

Start at the recommended Ilford developing time, and then subsequently add 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50% to that until you have negatives that have the amount of contrast you like.

Then judge. I am 99% sure you will be surprised.

pentaxuser · Mar 6, 2014

Interesting replies but for the OP I am not sure we are any nearer answering his question about why the lab has charged nearly three times its normal B&W processing price for D3200.

pentaxuser

fretlessdavis · Mar 6, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Don't discount D76 until you try to maximize the potential of it. D76 1+1 should work just fine, but you have to develop it for a long time. Expose a roll at 3200 of an average contrast scene, and do clip tests, developing a few frames at a time.

Start at the recommended Ilford developing time, and then subsequently add 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50% to that until you have negatives that have the amount of contrast you like.

Then judge. I am 99% sure you will be surprised.

I'll give it a go. For 135 exposed at 3200, D76 1:1, I used the recommended 12 minutes.... Not printable and barely scannable. I'll start from square one next time. I usually over-expose and pull FP4 and HP5 to get some more highlight detail and keep shadows... I'm guessing my brain wasn't working with either my exposure settings or development that day. Most people tend to NOT recommend D76 for Delta 3200, so I figured it was a bad combo, I guess.

snapguy · Mar 6, 2014

Good Old Jack

I am reminded of the Jack Nicholson scene in "Five Easy Pieces" where he fights a waitress over the restaurant's "no substitutions" rule. I think you are running afoul of a "too much bother" rule were the lab doesn't want orders that are out of the mainstream.
Another price we pay for using film. Maybe you need another lab.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

fretlessdavis said:
I'll give it a go. For 135 exposed at 3200, D76 1:1, I used the recommended 12 minutes.... Not printable and barely scannable. I'll start from square one next time. I usually over-expose and pull FP4 and HP5 to get some more highlight detail and keep shadows... I'm guessing my brain wasn't working with either my exposure settings or development that day. Most people tend to NOT recommend D76 for Delta 3200, so I figured it was a bad combo, I guess.

Overexposing and shortening your developing time is exactly the opposite of what you should do with Delta 3200. Normal (EI 1,000) to under-exposing is ideal, and develop it way longer than you think.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 6, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Interesting replies but for the OP I am not sure we are any nearer answering his question about why the lab has charged nearly three times its normal B&W processing price for D3200.

pentaxuser

I think that has been discussed at length already, though. I used to work in a professional lab, and any time somebody brought a roll of Delta 3200 that was shot at an EI higher than 1,000 would be considered a push.
If I remember correctly (this was ten years ago), a standard roll of black and white was about $6.75 for processing only, and push was something like 20% extra per stop. EI 3200 is in round numbers two stops push, so around $9 would have been the price (140% of normal).
The reasoning for that was simple economy. The film processor would run for large percentages of the day, and it was a first in - first out kind of system, unless there was a rush order. The dip & dunk system was effectively held up for that much longer when there was a push processed film (100% of the Delta 3200 I saw coming through was pushed), so the 20% per stop represents the lost efficiency of processing other rolls.

I can't understand why they want about 300%, though. That seems borderline like robbery.

MartinP · Mar 6, 2014

If someone is hand-processing Delta3200, instead of D76 look at Microphen or DDX, those can work well (with an extra stop of development time). However, that is based on my experience of only three rolls and some curiosity. Also remember that marginal lighting conditions can appear very different depending on what you are actually metering compared to what you think you are metering, so that is another cause of different results for different people.

Regarding the price hike over the standard rate, it might be possible that the lab was processing in a hand-tank specially because of the film - or it could also mean 'don't bring this stuff again'. One could always ask the lab?

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 6, 2014

Seriously, develop your own. I did it for 12 years in Japan with minimal equipment. Spend the 1,550 Yen on film.

Delta 3200 expensive to develop

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency