Delta 100 Pink and Milky Looking

[Ben Hutcherson]

I don't normally shoot Delta 100, and in fact the last I shot was some pretty badly expired stuff just to test a camera.

I stopped in the local camera store to get TMAX 100 to do some lens/camera testing and they were out of it in 120, so I ended up with some in-date(ex. 2026) Delta 100.

One of these rolls was one of several I processed today. It was developed in D76 1:1, and otherwise I didn't do anything unusual with the processing.

This roll came out with a pink cast and has a very "milky" look, though. Initially I suspected it may have been underfixed. I'm using a batch of Ilford Rapid diluted 1:4 that I've run a few rolls of film through, but it still clears a leader in under 2 minutes and only gives the faintest milky precipitate when tested with fixer test solution. I noticed this issue while I had a different roll in fixer from the same bottle(Shanghai GP3), and that one fixed fine.

This roll of Delta 100 did test negative for both retained silver and retained hypo, so fixing and washing by that test were adequate. None the less, while I was waiting 3 minutes for the retained silver test, I reloaded the film and re-fixed it in freshly prepared fixer(Kodak rapid), which made no difference.

Is this nothing to worry about and/or normal for this film, or is something strange going on?



(please ignore my wife's hair in the bathroom sink-I assure you it was not on the film).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Refix and rewash; more than once if necessary.

 

[koraks]

Is this nothing to worry about and/or normal for this film, or is something strange going on?

This looks normal to me. Ilford films tend to retain a magenta tinge rather easily (or, more aptly put: it's a bit more difficult to get the magenta out), but in practice it's not really a source of worry if this happens. Ilford has published something about this on their website.
The strip you're showing in the photo doesn't look very milky to me. See how it dries up; I think it's perfectly normal. The 'milkiness' you're seeing is probably just the swollen gelatin layer on both sides of the film; this diffuses light a little, giving it a milky appearance. As the gelatin dries, it compacts and the surface becomes less rough, reducing this diffusion effect dramatically.

If the magenta bothers you, you could make some fresh fixer and fix the film for 10 minutes or so. Note that it helps to use fresh fixer. A big part of the reason you're not getting rid of the magenta is the reused fixer. Again, it's not really a concern either way as long as the silver halide is fixed out, which seems to be the case.

I trust you know that Delta films (like TMAX films) require longer fixing than classic, cubic grain films.

I noticed this issue while I had a different roll in fixer from the same bottle(Shanghai GP3), and that one fixed fine.

Yeah, GP3 doesn't have this persistent magenta dye. I think the magenta dye is part of the anti-halation protection Harman uses.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

This looks normal to me. Ilford films tend to retain a magenta tinge rather easily (or, more aptly put: it's a bit more difficult to get the magenta out), but in practice it's not really a source of worry if this happens. Ilford has published something about this on their website.
The strip you're showing in the photo doesn't look very milky to me. See how it dries up; I think it's perfectly normal. The 'milkiness' you're seeing is probably just the swollen gelatin layer on both sides of the film; this diffuses light a little, giving it a milky appearance. As the gelatin dries, it compacts and the surface becomes less rough, reducing this diffusion effect dramatically.

If the magenta bothers you, you could make some fresh fixer and fix the film for 10 minutes or so. Note that it helps to use fresh fixer. A big part of the reason you're not getting rid of the magenta is the reused fixer. Again, it's not really a concern either way as long as the silver halide is fixed out, which seems to be the case.

I trust you know that Delta films (like TMAX films) require longer fixing than classic, cubic grain films.



Yeah, GP3 doesn't have this persistent magenta dye. I think the magenta dye is part of the anti-halation protection Harman uses.

Correct. Just extrawashing gets rid of it, and it doesn't do any harm anyway.

 

[relistan]

Not sure you need a third agreement, but this looks normal to me, too.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

Thanks everyone.

I don't use cubic grain films very often, and 90% of what I shoot is Tri-X or occasionally HP5, although funny enough of 5 rolls processed yesterday, not a one was Tri-X(I had HP5, Double-X, Shanghai GP3, and 7ft piece of 70mm Plus-X Aerographic). The HP5 I developed yesterday was faintly pink also, but nowhere as noticeable as this.

The film did look less milky once dried. I know all films have the look a little bit, but it just caught me off-guard. I'll let it be with the magenta dye remaining.

And yes, I know that T-grain films are trickier to fix than traditional grain films. IIRC, isn't it partially related to their higher AgI content compared to other films? I have a few more rolls of this to shoot, and I'm wondering if it's worthwhile prepping a fresh batch of fixer to fix these.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Thanks everyone.

I don't use cubic grain films very often, and 90% of what I shoot is Tri-X or occasionally HP5, although funny enough of 5 rolls processed yesterday, not a one was Tri-X(I had HP5, Double-X, Shanghai GP3, and 7ft piece of 70mm Plus-X Aerographic). The HP5 I developed yesterday was faintly pink also, but nowhere as noticeable as this.

The film did look less milky once dried. I know all films have the look a little bit, but it just caught me off-guard. I'll let it be with the magenta dye remaining.

And yes, I know that T-grain films are trickier to fix than traditional grain films. IIRC, isn't it partially related to their higher AgI content compared to other films? I have a few more rolls of this to shoot, and I'm wondering if it's worthwhile prepping a fresh batch of fixer to fix these.

Consider 2-bath fixing for film.

 

[Saganich]

I normally will fix an extra minute and wash longer in a case like this but I haven't decided which is more of a factor, extra fixing or longer washing.

 

[retina_restoration]

Fix for more time.
Wash for more time
Opt to do a hypo clearing bath after fixing: 1tsp sodium sulfite in 500ml water for 2 minutes, with agitation. Then final wash.

Do these things and "core shell"/T-grain films will lose 95% of the dye.

 

[mshchem]

Hypo clearing agent for a couple minutes gets rid of color tint. No doubt. Also make sure you have 68-75°F wash water

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

What mshchem said.

 

[MattKing]

I trust you know that Delta films (like TMAX films) require longer fixing than classic, cubic grain films.

And in addition, they exhaust fixer more quickly than classic, cubic grained film.
They are so demanding on fixer, that for those films rapid (ammonium thiosulfate based) fixers are strongly recommended over older, standard (sodium thiosulfate based) fixers.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Try some Perma-Wash.

 

[Dave Lusby]

FWIW, I had this problem with Tmax 100, so I cut the film into two pieces. One was then re-fixed in fresh rapid fixer; the other I re-washed for 30 minutes. Both came out perfectly clear.
You really need to "over-do" the fix/wash cycles with T grain films.
And be really anal about the developer temperature and times. Careful technique leads to good results.

 

[Kilgallb]

using double strength hypo clear or Ilford wash aid works well to remove the magen…

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Fixer will pick up some of the dye with use. Be sure to use Perma-Wash after fixing!