Delta 100 grain and sharpness

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Hello all,
I recently developed two rolls of 120 Delta 100 in DD-X after having incredible luck with TMax 400 in DDX. I was truthfully blown away by the amount of detail and how fine the grain with the TMax/ddx combo.
Now with the Delta 100, I'm a bit more than underwhelmed. The grain is pretty pronounced, although not blocky by any means, and it lacks the sharpness of the TMax. I've heard nothing but great things about the detail and fine grain of Delta 100, and I really want to love it (especially since the fate of TMax 100 in 120 seems to be up in the air), but after those two rolls I just cant get excited about it. I assumed since DDX is the recommended developer by Ilford, it would give me better results. I developed it for 12 minutes at 20c, inversions for the first minute then 10 seconds every thirty seconds afterwords.
I guess my question is, what developers do others like with Delta 100 for detail and fine grain? I've looked over FilmDev.org and haven't really come to any conclusion so I figured I would ask here.

Thanks for listening!
Dory

bvy · Nov 16, 2017

Perceptol 1+1 or even stock. Overexpose it slightly. Creamy. Beautiful.

rrusso · Nov 16, 2017

Ilford recommends agitation only for the first ten seconds of each minute...my guess would be too much agitation caused the pronounced grain.

Edit: I've only used DD-X for D100 so far, and the grain is very fine - I use Ilford's recommended method.

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

rrusso said:
Ilford recommends agitation only for the first ten seconds of each minute...my guess would be too much agitation caused the pronounced grain.

Edit: I've only used DD-X for D100 so far, and the grain is very fine - I use Ilford's recommended method.

I totally missed that, now I'm wondering if the same thing contributed to my less than stellar experience with PanF+ and DDX. I have one more roll of D100 so I'll be trying it again soon.

bvy · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
I totally missed that, now I'm wondering if the same thing contributed to my less than stellar experience with PanF+ and DDX. I have one more roll of D100 so I'll be trying it again soon.

Well, that's Ilford standard agitation regiment for small tanks, and you'll find that in all their developer fact sheets. I don't think it's specific to DD-X or any single Ilford developer. If you dig deeper, DD-X is actually Ilford's recommendation for rotary processing (i.e. constant agitation), so I wouldn't expect agitation to be your issue here.

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Worth a try tho I guess. Its just money right?

pentaxuser · Nov 16, 2017

How are you judging the grain, by prints, in which case how big, or by scan? If by scan was this done in exactly the same way as your TMax How did you process the Delta? Did you follow all of Ilford's recommendations?

There may be some difference in between T Max and Delta but to see a big enough difference between TMax 400 and a Delta film that is 100 for this to be troublesome, surprises me greatly. I think that there isn't a large enough difference inherent in the two films especially when the "inferior" one is 2 stops in speed.

I think we need to know more of what you have done before we can even try and work out what has happened. Tell us more if you will

pentaxuser

NortheastPhotographic · Nov 16, 2017

That is WAY more agitation than this film needs. I do 30 seconds of slow inversions at the start and then 5 slow inversions every minute thereafter. I'd put money down on over-agitation as your problem.

Also, Ilford films are great in DDX, however Ilfosol S is their acutance developer. Might be worth a try.

pentaxuser · Nov 16, 2017

Well the agitation for Delta 100 is greater than Ilford recommends but I presume that the OP has used the same agitation with DDX for TMax 400 and apparently the grain was great. The danger is that we will end up talking about the OP's issue without his contribution in the same way we used to ask: Does he take sugar? in respect of disabled people who were perfectly capable of giving their own answers.

We need to know more, IMHO

pentaxuser

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Thanks for all the input!
@pentaxuser Aye the agitation was the same, and I am judging this off of a scan as I don't have a proper darkroom to print in. EDIT: Epson V700
@Sperdynamite I have tried D100 in Ilfosol3, but am unable to find Ilfosol S for sale locally or online. Had about the same results as with the DDX.

Lachlan Young · Nov 16, 2017

ID-11 1+1 or 1+3 is pretty optimal for Delta 100 in my experience - one other thing to consider is that Ilford's recommended developing times are geared to a specific contrast index/ G-Bar which may be too high for the circumstances in which you are using the film. I'd strongly recommend trying 9.5 minutes in DD-X - what Ilford suggest for an EI of 50, though you should bracket a test roll for what you feel to be adequate shadow detail in order to arrive at your optimal film speed. As pentaxuser said, it will help if you tell us whether you're making darkroom prints, scanning on a consumer flatbed or a high end flatbed/ drum scanner.

BMbikerider · Nov 16, 2017

Delta 100 in either Rodinal of FX39....I have no problems. Rodinal will give a sharper print with a little more grain than FX39, but the grain is not that obvious. About the same as FP4+ in ID11 but not as sharp. I do like Tmax but it is a lot more expensive than Delta especially as I buy Delta in bulk.

Svenedin · Nov 16, 2017

I've developed Delta 100 in DD-X and Xtol both 35mm and 120. The grain was very fine. Agitation 4 inversions at the beginning and then 4 at the start of each minute as per instructions. The inversions over a 10 second period.

This is 400 Delta in DD-X

Stuiben Falls Austria

Svenedin
Nov 16, 2017
2

I found this negative with some 6x6 I had never printed. I have printed its 35mm sibling before...

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Svenedin said:
I've developed Delta 100 in DD-X and Xtol both 35mm and 120. The grain was very fine. Agitation 4 inversions at the beginning and then 4 at the start of each minute as per instructions. The inversions over a 10 second period.

This is 400 Delta in DD-X

Stuiben Falls Austria

Svenedin

Nov 16, 2017

2

I found this negative with some 6x6 I had never printed. I have printed its 35mm sibling before...

Cant see this fullsize so I cant judge sharpness but thats a beautiful composition!

Svenedin · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
Cant see this fullsize so I cant judge sharpness but thats a beautiful composition!

Thank you. You can see full size here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144059001@N05/26695330529/in/dateposted-public/

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Alright then, guess I need to try it with proper agitation! Whats your method of digitizing?

Ian Grant · Nov 16, 2017

I use a lot of Delta 100 it's my main film, always very fine grain, great tonality and sharpness.

You need to fine tune any film/developer combination to get the optimal EI and dev time that produces negatives that suit you, agitate as recommended but hone your exposure and development so you always get what you expect.

Ian

Svenedin · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
Alright then, guess I need to try it with proper agitation! Whats your method of digitizing?

It's a wet print that's been scanned so if you like it's already a copy of a copy. I do scan negatives sometimes especially if a negative gets damaged and I can't wet print it.

This is also 400 Delta but is a scan of the negative. There was a bad scratch on the negative that I had to fix in photoshop.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144059001@N05/28437905216/in/dateposted-public/

Also how good was your temperature control during developing?

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Svenedin said:
Also how good was your temperature control during developing?

For some reason I've become very paranoid about temp control. I mix between 20.5 and 21.5 and by the time I pour it, its between 19.8 and 20.8. I check before I pour.

Svenedin · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
For some reason I've become very paranoid about temp control. I mix between 20.5 and 21.5 and by the time I pour it, its between 19.8 and 20.8. I check before I pour.

OK. I develop at 20 C/ 68 F which usually means I have to warm things up because my room temperature is below that for a lot of the year. I like to be within 0.5 C and if I think the temperature will drop too much I keep the developing tank in the sink in a bath of water at 20 C. I'm surprised you found the grain not to your liking and also a bit puzzled that too much agitation would make such a difference. I'd expect extra agitation to mean your negs were perhaps a bit overdeveloped but not such an effect on grain. By the way, I'm not rabidly defending Delta; I like TMax a lot but it is quite expensive in the UK compared to Delta.

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

Svenedin said:
OK. I develop at 20 C/ 68 F which usually means I have to warm things up because my room temperature is below that for a lot of the year. I like to be within 0.5 C and if I think the temperature will drop too much I keep the developing tank in the sink in a bath of water at 20 C. I'm surprised you found the grain not to your liking and also a bit puzzled that too much agitation would make such a difference. I'd expect extra agitation to mean your negs were perhaps a bit overdeveloped but not such an effect on grain. By the way, I'm not rabidly defending Delta; I like TMax a lot but it is quite expensive in the UK compared to Delta.

Guess I'll just have to experiment more then . Yeah Tmax isn't terribly more here, just a bit. Funny, seeing as Alaris is UK based isnt it?

Svenedin · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
Guess I'll just have to experiment more then . Yeah Tmax isn't terribly more here, just a bit. Funny, seeing as Alaris is UK based isnt it?

No it's made in the USA and based there too. Alaris is owned by the UK based Kodak Pension Plan.

Yes experiment but keep a note of what you do (maybe write your development time on the neg sleeves). Try some with the Ilford recommended agitation. If grain is still a problem try a bit less development time (say 10%). The developing times given are a guide and they will not suit everyone. Also worth adjusting your scanner settings to see if it is a scanning issue.

DoryBreaux · Nov 16, 2017

michael_r said:
I think your grain problem with Delta 100 in DDX will be solved simply by developing for around 7-7.5 minutes as a starting point. The 12 minute time recommended by Ilford is way too long. Delta 100 graininess should be similar to TMY-2. Note the TMax films are exceedingly fine grained.

Noted, will give that a try!

Tony-S · Nov 16, 2017

DoryBreaux said:
Aye the agitation was the same, and I am judging this off of a scan as I don't have a proper darkroom to print in. EDIT: Epson V700

Just to be sure, you disabled ICE on your scanner, right?

brent8927 · Nov 16, 2017

I find delta 100 too fine-grained in 120 size (I also use DD-X), and find delta 400 has just enough grain to add character but still look sharp. Plus I get two more stops. Still, without using an ND filter, sometimes that gives me more DOF than I prefer, so I do still shoot delta 100, and also slowly agitate for 10 seconds every minute (using inversion method).

Delta 100 grain and sharpness

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