Dektol working solution life

tkamiya · Jan 20, 2010

According to Kodak's published literature, Dektol 1:2 working solution in TRAY lasts 24 hours. Undiluted stock solution in full bottle lasts for 6 months.

What happens if one store working solution in full bottle?

I am wondering about this, as I'd like to print few at a time. It would be great if I can make a working solution, use it in tray for few prints, pour it into a full container. With this, I am NOT talking about pour it back into a stock solution bottle. I am also not talking about pre-diluting a lot of working solutions either. I can keep a separate small bottle for used working solutions. If this is possible, I can reuse it for few more times.

True, Dektols are cheap but it becomes wasteful if I drain only after few prints.

I can do my own experiment but I'm wondering if someone has already done this test. If not, I will do my own test and post the result here.

nickandre · Jan 20, 2010

if you put it in a full bottle it will last a month or three. Don't leave any air though. Glass is best and will last for longer, though even plastic works well.

tkamiya · Jan 20, 2010

THAT long? I was thinking a week or two would be great, but a month or three? Wow!

Rich Ullsmith · Jan 20, 2010

Just for kicks, try this: make detailed notes on your first complete print (f-stop, enlarger height, developer temperature, time, etc.) Go about your printing, if that means three or four sessions over the course of the week. Cover the developer with cellophane inbetween sessions, with the plastic in contact with the liquid, and sealed at the borders.

A week later or so, whenever you are done printing, go back to your first print and make one more. Put the first and last prints side by side, and you will probably see the same thing I see.

When I print proofs after a trip, where there are several films to process, the same developer stays in the tray for a week. With RC paper, I can't tell the difference from the first to the last.

dancqu · Jan 20, 2010

Plan Ahead --- Use More Dilute

tkamiya said:
What happens if one store working solution in full bottle? ...
I can keep a separate small bottle for used working solutions.
If this is possible, I can reuse it for few more times.

The method you suggest should work well. I'm sure others will
vouch for that. My method calls for planning ahead. I know just
how much of each chemical is needed. That way I have fresh
chemistry each session and need not save any. To make
workable solution volumes and save on chemistry it is
used more dilute than usual. Were I using Dektol I'd
likely dilute it 1:5. Same for fix, more dilute. Dan

naugastyle · Jan 20, 2010

I currently store my used Dektol 1+2 in Coke bottles. Unfortunately that's only a bit over 600ml, but since I mainly print 5x7s with the occasional 8x10 it just about covers an 8x10 tray. I haven't run tests yet, I know I should...thus far I'm just working until it "feels like" it takes too long to get a good black (or the volume goes down too much, as it does after a while). For me, that's about 3 weeks, printing once a week, 8-14 hours at a time. I am also saving my used Zonal HQ warmtone the same way.

rwboyer · Jan 20, 2010

naugastyle said:
I currently store my used Dektol 1+2 in Coke bottles. Unfortunately that's only a bit over 600ml, but since I mainly print 5x7s with the occasional 8x10 it just about covers an 8x10 tray. I haven't run tests yet, I know I should...thus far I'm just working until it "feels like" it takes too long to get a good black (or the volume goes down too much, as it does after a while). For me, that's about 3 weeks, printing once a week, 8-14 hours at a time. I am also saving my used Zonal HQ warmtone the same way.

Just a comment on this overall thought process...

I use and love Dektol and I am all for economy but saving dektol that has been diluted and used really is not a great idea unless you really need to save the pennies. Even though it does still "work" it's characteristics change substantially - including lower contrast there is a distinctly different print character as the Developer gets exhausted and or oxidized. it's not Just getting to DMAX - inevitably you will also see much lower contrast in the low values getting to that DMAX black.

As a note - in most trays used for 8x10 600ml is more than enough to process prints very well and this only uses 200ml of stock developer - that is like maybe 25 cents? You have to be kidding me if this is really an issue for a single printing session. Heck the cheapest paper on the planet costs more than that per sheet in 100 sheet boxes. Please tell me you don't fire up the whole process and do all the pouring and everything to do just one print. In any case if you are using "good" paper I have no idea why you would chance it.

For sure reuse your fixer again using it at lower dilution is not a great idea - no reason to do so if you reuse it anyway.

Just my 2¢ I guess nothing is really "wrong". Just questionable.

RB

tkamiya · Jan 20, 2010

You must buy your Dektol in much larger quantity than I do. 1 Liter package of Dektol costs $2.95US. If I use 200ml, the cost per session is 59 cents. I know this still isn't a lot of money. Negligible, perhaps. I certainly don't need to count pennies to this level, and yes, a sheet of paper costs just as much.

My thought of re-using developer came from thinking, if a stock solution in full bottle lasts 6 months (and it already contains water), adding twice as much water shouldn't shorten its life so much that it will only last 24 hours. If I keep it in tray, it will oxidize. So, why not keep it in a clean, sealed, and full bottle. I just couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't work - that's why I asked. (unless, of course, I exhaust it already) It's about having it more convenient, not wasteful, and yes, economy.

Today, I actually printed JUST ONE PRINT. I had 10 prints from two days ago and one of them, I just needed to redo. In my room, everything is already set up, except for pouring the chemical part, so it's really not a big deal to do just one.

I am still learning - I appreciate input from folks far more experienced, such as yourself. Thank you very much for coming to my thread and provide your input. I appreciate it very much.

PhotoJim · Jan 20, 2010

You might want to consider getting some Ansco 130 (or the raw ingredients to make it). It's a gorgeous print developer and the working solution will last for months. The stock solution keeps at least a year. The glycin in the developer seems to help a lot in preserving the other developing agents.

rwboyer · Jan 20, 2010

tkamiya said:
You must buy your Dektol in much larger quantity than I do. 1 Liter package of Dektol costs $2.95US. If I use 200ml, the cost per session is 59 cents. I know this still isn't a lot of money. Negligible, perhaps. I certainly don't need to count pennies to this level, and yes, a sheet of paper costs just as much.

My thought of re-using developer came from thinking, if a stock solution in full bottle lasts 6 months (and it already contains water), adding twice as much water shouldn't shorten its life so much that it will only last 24 hours. If I keep it in tray, it will oxidize. So, why not keep it in a clean, sealed, and full bottle. I just couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't work - that's why I asked. (unless, of course, I exhaust it already) It's about having it more convenient, not wasteful, and yes, economy.

Today, I actually printed JUST ONE PRINT. I had 10 prints from two days ago and one of them, I just needed to redo. In my room, everything is already set up, except for pouring the chemical part, so it's really not a big deal to do just one.

I am still learning - I appreciate input from folks far more experienced, such as yourself. Thank you very much for coming to my thread and provide your input. I appreciate it very much.

I do buy it in much larger quantities but the 1 gallon price seems to be about 5 bucks so that looks to be the way to go. You may want to think about the one gallon. It appears that the 1 liter price is more than double the unit cost.

RB

rwboyer · Jan 20, 2010

PhotoJim said:
You might want to consider getting some Ansco 130 (or the raw ingredients to make it). It's a gorgeous print developer and the working solution will last for months. The stock solution keeps at least a year. The glycin in the developer seems to help a lot in preserving the other developing agents.

Ansco 130 is great stuff but and the solution does seem to keep a while but in practice I stopped using it because I get better economy/capacity/longevity out of Amidol when I need something sort of like 130 and Dektol gives me nice results as a general purpose developer.

The big issue that I had with mixing 130 is that the dry chemical shelf life is not so great compared to Amidol and the economy isn't really any better and in a lot of cases worse if you do a lot of printing.

RB

Ps. Maybe I am just miffed about a big batch of glycin going south on me a while ago.

DLawson · Jan 21, 2010

tiberiustibz said:
if you put it in a full bottle it will last a month or three. Don't leave any air though. Glass is best and will last for longer, though even plastic works well.

On the glass and no-air issue. . .

I did a brief printing session about 6 weeks ago, and expected to do another soon. So I put the ~1 liter of Dektol 1+2 in the jug I had available -- a half gallon plastic jug.

This weekend, I was setting up to print, found the saved Dektol and decided that was bit old. I started to dump it out and then stopped to look at the label. The solution was such a rich yellow that I thought it was stop bath.

Rick A · Jan 21, 2010

I just dumped a litre bottle of ten month old very black still very active Dektol,,and regret it. I was useing it with Kodabrome II(developers incorporated), also testing it on C-41 film(works nicely)for the contrast boost. It worked really good for paper negatives. Now I'm going to start over with a batch I mixed two weeks ago. Dang I regret that move.

Rick

Dektol working solution life

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