Dektol in tray for over 24hrs. Why throw it away ?

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 5, 2013

semi-ambivalent said:
I use LPD but have a box of Formulary 130 in the freezer and wonder this: Does the pour-back accelerate the oxidation because of the aeration? I use a funnel with a 6" plastic tube to try and keep it from churning in the bottom of the jug but I often wonder if I'm worrying about nothing. (I printed some 5x7s and cleaned up already, so I get to be on the internet with the first of maybe too many glasses of wine.)

s-a

You think pouring back to the bottle oxidizes the dev more than letting it sit in a tray? Oh no, my friend.

LPD in a capped bottle lasts a very long time. Even working solution does. At times when I print little, my replenished working solution, and 2:1 diluted replenisher, last for a good bit more than six months. I have not been able to exhaust it yet, other than the time I left it in the tray for days because I forgot it. That should tell you something.

Even so, the exhausted working solution was brought back to life quickly with a heavy dose of replenishing solution.

removed account4 · Nov 5, 2013

ole, here on apug
once posted that he left an open tray of ansco 130 out
and left for work ... came back later ( maybe a monty?) to the open tray
and it was still good ... they say ansco 130 lasts 30days in an open tray ...
i use it when it is BLACK as COCA COLA to process paper negatives

some say prints with ansco 130 and dektol look very much if not exactly the same ..
ive never processed film in dektol but i hear they look very nice
( ansco film looks great been using it or something exactly like since the 90s )
the kicker for me, is it lasts for a long long time when mixed as a stock solution ..
and i am currently using stock solution i mixed over a year ago ...
and the FIZZZZ when you mix it up

hacked - sepiareverb · Nov 5, 2013

The smell of old Dektol alone is reason enough to dump it. Moersch 4812 is also quite long-lived.

semi-ambivalent · Nov 5, 2013

Thomas Bertilsson said:
You think pouring back to the bottle oxidizes the dev more than letting it sit in a tray? Oh no, my friend.

LPD in a capped bottle lasts a very long time. Even working solution does. At times when I print little, my replenished working solution, and 2:1 diluted replenisher, last for a good bit more than six months. I have not been able to exhaust it yet, other than the time I left it in the tray for days because I forgot it. That should tell you something.

Even so, the exhausted working solution was brought back to life quickly with a heavy dose of replenishing solution.

Then I'll quit worrying and try the 130. The current LPD is almost shot.

thanks,
s-a

Shawn Dougherty · Nov 5, 2013

I did a side by side test of Fresh and Day After Dektol (1+2).

I printed at night (low volume, nowhere near exhaustion) then poured it into a bottle, squeezed out the air and capped it. I used it again the NEXT night and tried making the same print. I could not match it. Same paper, same filters, exposures times were very close but the contrast was noticeably lower... I had to add a full grade to get me close. I took the print I made with the same filters to completion (selenium toned, washed, etc) just to be certain. A very noticeable difference.

After that, and Dektol being SO cheap, I decided it was a one shot for me as a print developer. I'm sure I could have worked a good print out of it but consistency is a valuable thing and paper is expensive.

Having said that... I have been saving my last batch of Dektol working solution after each print session for developing Paper Negatives where the dip in contrast is a bonus.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 5, 2013

semi-ambivalent said:
Then I'll quit worrying and try the 130. The current LPD is almost shot.

thanks,
s-a

And I hope you have lots of fun doing so. 130 is great!

Paul Glover · Nov 5, 2013

I chose 130 for precisely this reason. I don't get to print regularly or in large volume, figured that a developer reputed to have a tray life of a month would do well in a properly sealed bottle between print sessions.

So far it has not disappointed me in that regard!

NedL · Nov 5, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
Just to provide some interesting control/reference data, Richard Henry tested the open tray life of an unused 1:1 Dektol working solution at 1-day intervals out to 6 days at 68-70F using Ilford Ilfobrom.

Through two days, statistically identical results could be produced as long as development time was extended. After 2 days, a continuous decline in maximum reflection density was observed, which could not be compensated for by extending development time. However for reflection densities of ~2.00 and below, identical results could be produced even out to 6 days by extending development time. The required increase in development time followed a logarithmic progression.

Thanks. I was having trouble reconciling Shawn's post with my own experience. I've continued work on a print the next day and everything was consistent from where I left off ( for example, make the "working print" one night, then work on a "final" the next night. ) The different experience may be explained by some procedural difference. For example, I routinely develop for 2 minutes and up to 2m15s. There are other possibilities as well. I wonder if visible yellowing of dektol was correlated to decrease in max density.

Shawn Dougherty · Nov 6, 2013

NedL said:
Thanks. I was having trouble reconciling Shawn's post with my own experience. I've continued work on a print the next day and everything was consistent from where I left off ( for example, make the "working print" one night, then work on a "final" the next night. ) The different experience may be explained by some procedural difference. For example, I routinely develop for 2 minutes and up to 2m15s. There are other possibilities as well. I wonder if visible yellowing of dektol was correlated to decrease in max density.

Michael R 1974 said:
The difference may be developing time. The way I read Shawn's post development time was kept constant at day 0 and day 1. Henry was able to duplicate day 0 and day 1 prints by increasing development time by about 25% (his normal time at a 1:1 dilution was 1:30). Shawn is using the more standard dilution of 1:2 so presumably the required % increase in development time would be greater - although this could potentially be offset by Shawn having bottled it while Henry kept it in an open tray for the entire duration of the 6-day test. Another variable is the paper itself. Henry ran his tests with graded Ilford Ilfobrom (this was in the mid-1980s). Different papers might respond differently.

Note also Henry was measuring reflection densities objectively. In reality a measured fall-off in d-max from say 2.40 to 2.30 might not be detectable by eye, since the eye is more sensitive to small changes in light tones than very dark tones. But here again, there are variables to consider such as viewing conditions, the subject matter and tonality of the picture being printed, etc.

The most important point I take from Henry's Dektol tray life test is that after day 0, processing had to change in order to compensate for the change in developer activity. Since I don't like to mess with print development times (I use Dektol) I know I can't keep the working solution past a single printing session even if it is relatively fresh. Not that I ever did that anyway. I want the most consistency I can get from my materials.

Just to be clear:
I was using Dektol 1+2, developing for 2 minutes at about 68degress, printing on Ilford MG Warmtone FB.
I did NOT change my developing time on the second day. I did do a couple tests using a higher filter grade and believe I COULD have matched the print (or made one fairly close) by taking the prints using the higher grades to completion. I did not test extending the developing time.

Also, Ned, it's probably worth mentioning that I was working on a print that was very low/mid tone heavy and really showed the differences more than some other prints might have. Those differences also became more apparent with dry down.

I decided that as the difference was obvious and using a fresh Dektol working solution gave consistent results... and Dektol being so cheap that I would simply mix a fresh batch each time. I'm with Michael as I do not like to mess with print developing times. I prefer to make changes under the enlarger whenever possible. The less variables I have the better.

NedL · Nov 6, 2013

Hi Shawn and Michael, I didn't mean that I change the time from one day to the next. I always develop between 2 and 2:15, and usually exactly 2 minutes. Room temp, very close to 68F, but I don't measure it. I also keep it in a sealed bottle during a print session and don't use trays at all, but after reading these last two posts I suspect I simply would not have noticed a a small difference in max density if it was present. A small change that would be more visible after drydown makes sense, after all the change becomes blatant after 4 or 5 days, and it must be changing that whole time.

Thanks for taking the time for the extended responses. It's interesting!

I'm actually down to my last quart of stock dektol, and have some LPD to try when I've used it up, but dektol has been wonderful.

Dektol in tray for over 24hrs. Why throw it away ?

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