Deepest black on Ilford FB MGIV

Marc Leest · Jul 20, 2005

I always arrive when using Ilford FB MGIV having not satisfactory blacks.(deep grey, not black). Prolonged exposure blocks the shadows. So what can I do to improve this issue (film developer, technique, paper developer, toner).

thx, Marc.

david b · Jul 20, 2005

Is this glossy or semi-matte? Also, is this warm tone?

Marc Leest · Jul 20, 2005

david b said:
Is this glossy or semi-matte? Also, is this warm tone?

It's the non WT, glossy - air dried.

M.

Flotsam · Jul 20, 2005

I know what you mean.
I had the same problem and solved it completely by switching to Kodak Polymax Fine Art Paper. Unfortunately, soon that will no longer be an option ( Thank You, Kodak ).
Once, I tried Edwal Ultra Black paper developer with pretty good results. It boosts the Blacks and the contrast a bit but it is sort of expensive, at least compared to Dektol.
I'll be following this thread closely to see what others suggest.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 20, 2005

Try graded paper. I find the blacks more satisfying with graded papers in general. I keep some MGIV FB on hand, but just for negatives that I think might particularly benefit from split grade printing or local contrast burning.

Also, you can try increasing the development time, using stronger developer solution, or a higher contrast filter.

Michael Smith's amidol solution will boost blacks slightly with MGIV FB, in my experience, but not necessarily enough to justify the expense.

Donald Miller · Jul 20, 2005

Marc Leest said:
I always arrive when using Ilford FB MGIV having not satisfactory blacks.(deep grey, not black). Prolonged exposure blocks the shadows. So what can I do to improve this issue (film developer, technique, paper developer, toner).

thx, Marc.

From what you describe, my thoughts are that the curve of the film is not coinciding with the curve of the paper. By that I mean that if you are using a long toe film and placing your shadow exposures on the toe of the film curve then your shadow densities will not show adequate separation when you print them. This would lead your shadows to block more then if the shadow densities are placed higher on the curve. You might try giving more film exposure and see if this helps you at the printing stage.

jim appleyard · Jul 20, 2005

It's hard to say where your problem is. A few suggestions tho':

When taking the photo, meter for the shadows and print for the highlights in the darkroom.

You might want to develop the film a *little* longer. This will increase the contrast. This can take lots of trial-and-error. I'd start with a 1-minute increase.

Use fresh developer when devving the film and paper. Nothing leaves you flat like exhausted dev.

Are you using variable contrast filters or a color head when you print? The filters/colorhead will affect your contrast.

It may take a while to pin this down, but keep at it.

Chris Fraser · Jul 20, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
I keep some MGIV FB on hand, but just for negatives that I think might particularly benefit from split grade printing or local contrast burning.

I agree 100% Split Grade Printing..

Chris

Marc Leest · Jul 20, 2005

I use a VC head with a RH designs analyser pro. Calibrated with a Stouffer transmission step wedge. Split grade printing is an option.

Chris Fraser · Jul 20, 2005

I use split grade printing for virtually all of my work. Once I got use to it the technique it seemed like a natural way to print. I get the print I want faster and I like the results better!

veriwide · Jul 20, 2005

I use the same Ilford Fb in semi matte warm tone, and felt the same about the blacks. I single filter print and split filter print with it. I have found my way to get the blacks that I want.

I print to get all the shadow detail I want, develop and dry, then once I have a collection of 20-50 prints and selenium tone 1:19, at room temp, for about a minute or two, until I see the rich black I want.

I hope this works for you. If not, when I ask for ideas in the darkroom I like to try each one that I get. Being in the dark is better than being in front of a computer.

Patrick

Wally H · Jul 20, 2005

I use Photographer's Formulary BW-65 paper developer on the MG-FB (VC)... after air drying and mounting, I also steam the print to add a little more to the blacks...

Jim Chinn · Jul 20, 2005

I agree that MGIV does not give up its blacks easily. As Donald Miller pointed out you may need to re-tailor your exposures to fit the paper. I have found that Agfa Nuetol or Edwal Black combined with selenium toning will provide good blacks. IIRC Zonal Pro works well but I don't know if it is still available.

c6h6o3 · Jul 20, 2005

Marc Leest said:
So what can I do to improve this issue (film developer, technique, paper developer, toner).

thx, Marc.

Get a better paper. Develop it in amidol.

gareth harper · Jul 20, 2005

You could try strong warm selenium. KRS at 1+4 at 25 degrees C. You will also get a tonal shift from green (untoned) to blue as well as much deeper blacks.

Marc Leest · Jul 20, 2005

c6h6o3 said:
Get a better paper. Develop it in amidol.

I am about quitting RC paper at all. For less critical work i want to use MG IV FB. Tonality is ok, only the blacks. A suggestion ?

philldresser · Jul 20, 2005

Marc

I have used Multigrade IV quite extensively and reiterate what Donald Miller said that you might need to adjust the film exposure/development to "match" the multigrade curve. Selenium toner also slightly darkens the blacks in MGIV

As an alternative I have started using Oriental Seagull VC which gives me a deeper black still using Ilford MG developer.

Phill

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 20, 2005

For enlargements, I really like Efke/Adox/Cachet/Maco/J&C Expo graded FB in Michael Smith's amidol formula. Steve Anchell has also written good things about this paper in amidol (not sure which formula he uses). In Europe you should be able to get it from fotoimpex.de.

Most of the premium graded papers are good, though, and much is a matter of taste. Buy a few 25 packs and test them for yourself to see what you like.

Deepest black on Ilford FB MGIV

Marc Leest

david b

Marc Leest

Flotsam

David A. Goldfarb

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Donald Miller

jim appleyard

Chris Fraser

Marc Leest

Chris Fraser

veriwide

Wally H

Jim Chinn

c6h6o3

gareth harper

Marc Leest

philldresser

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Deepest black on Ilford FB MGIV

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