Deep tank development of sheet films

[Tony Lovell]

I would be grateful for some advice regarding deep tank processing of 7x5 & 10x8 sheets of HP5+ in ID11 with replenishment using Kodak hangers and basket in 15 litre Kodak tanks.

I'm getting uneven development, which shows particularly in plain sky areas as streaking from top to bottom. (Looking like rain, which is common in the UK!)

I'm processing as per the Ilford technical sheet. I stir the developer to ensure even temperature and mix prior to a session, my normal development time is 8mins at 20 degrees. I regularly run Ilford test strips through and check with a densometer and adjust my replenisher if necessary (rarely).

I load the sheets in hangers all in the same direction, I don't use a pre soak, the sheets sit about 10mm below the surface. I processed in ID-11 stock solution, usually six sheets at a time but I have the same problems with 12 sheets at a time and as little as two sheets. My agitation method is: - Raise and lower (out of developer) for the first 30secs, and tilt 30 degrees left and then right on alternate lifts, I then repeat this every minute, lifting and tilting three times.

I use a water bath with vertical lifting and lowering for one minute and then Ilford fix, again vertically lifting and lowering for two minutes.

I consider myself an experienced B&W darkroom worker (20+ years); I have no problems developing 120 roll film in the same baskets and tanks and have no problems developing the same films in trays. After a long trip, developing 30 or 40 sheets in trays is hard work and takes me literally weeks of free evenings.

It would be nice to nail the deep tank streaking problem, any practical advice would be welcomed!
Tony Lovell

 

[Ian Grant]

It must be the way you are agitating your negatives.

I used deep tanks in the 70's and 80's and there is a technique for agitation, just dunking up and down is a recipe for disaster, there's a need for a sideways movement as well. It's harder to describe than do !

Ian

 

[radiantdarkroom]

AH, You must tilt the hangers 90 Degrees, and only twice every 1 minute and make sure the hanger holes are opposite to the emulsion site of the film, and you may want to put 8x10 acetate sheets in hangers between 8x10 films so they don't stick to one another. Hope this helps.

 

[Tony Lovell]

The Kodak baskets are a fairly good fit in the tanks, hence I am lifting and then tilting over to drain in alternate directions three times each minute...which takes around 20 seconds to do.

Tony

 

[radiantdarkroom]

Yes and you should do it as fast and safely as possible. Don't forget to tap the hangers after each agitation. Agitation is for sheet film is different than roll film.

 

[radiantdarkroom]

Ok, here is more, I forgot to mention initial agitation. Don't agitate at all for the first minute. Just knock hangers to dislodge air bubbels. if this doesn't work check your camera for light leaks and what not.

Cheers It's such a shame to not get a good 8x10 negative after all the expense and work.

Good luck

 

[Charles Webb]

The problem is in agitation, using the basket invites vertical surge marks on the film. With a water bath before developer, most likely no air bubbles will be clinging to the film emulsion. Insert of the film into the tank, once completely submersed lift a bit then kind of rattle the hanger against the sides of the tank. Has worked perfectly for me for more years than I care to count. BTW, each minute, I lift and rock to the right 45 degrees or so then resubmerge gently, not dropping the hanger so as not causing the developer to rush through the side and bottom holes. Lift again, and rock to the left and gently replace the hanger in the developer. For me it takes close to five seconds.

Charlie...............................

 

[Neal]

Dear Tony,

I find that uneven develpment is caused by too little agitation rather than too much. I have only used hangers with 4x5, but have had no problems with uneven development. Go to every 30 seconds and the problem should disappear.

Neal Wydra

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Contrary to the previous poster, I find that uneven development comes from too much agitation., and not using a water pre-soak.

I use the larger stainless film hangers, either the one-sheet 8x10, or the 4-sheet 4x5 styles. I presoak my negatives in a water bath (an additional tank filled with fresh temperature accurate water) for 4 minutes with agitation frequently. Can't get streaks from water...the goal is to get the film completely wet all the way thru the emulsion.

Then I transfer my film to the developer filled tank..agitate for 20 seconds, by lifting hangars out tilt to the left, back, lifting out tilt to the right, back.

Then I back off, not even touching the sink so no vibration. At each minute interval, I gently lift the hangars out slowly and tilt either left or right. One time. No sudden jerks. I do this once each minute of development. At end of development time, I gently lift hangars out, tilting to drain excess developer back into the tank, then put into tank of weak stop bath, where I agitate fairly vigorously for 30 seconds, then into tank of Kodak Rapid Fix with Hardener...film strength. I agitate fairly vigorously for about 30 seconds, and after about 45 seconds turn on the lights, and continue to agitate every 30 seconds for remainder of fixing time. I get no streaks. See my bridge photos here in my gallery.

The "most important" bit of knowledge from this whole post...is to use a water pre-soak for several minutes prior to development.

 

[KenM]

I had the same problem with single-sheet 4x5 stainless steel hangers, and I traced the problem to too little agitation.

Now, Photoone suggests very quiet agitation, and it works for him. I agree with him that I think the long pre-soak (which some film manufacturers don't recommend) probably plays a very large part in his success.

However, in my case, I do NOT use a presoak. I've never had air bells, and once I increased agitation, no unevenness.

If you think about it, you want to randomize as much as possible the movement of the developer in the tank. Gentle agitation will create flow patterns, which can in turn lead to surge marks. Increasing agitation will randomize the movement of the devloper more - of course, too vigorous agitation will also lead to surge marks.

My personal style is to agitate continuously for the first minute, then for 15 seconds each minute after that. I lift the hangers up, tilt right, insert back into tank, lift, tilt left, insert back into tank, etc. until the agitation time has elapsed. In 15 seconds, I probably go through 5-6 inversion cycles as described above. I get perfectly even skies.

This is something that you'll have to figure out yourself, since there are many factors involved. You've got at least two different techniques to try now

Good luck!

 

[removed account4]

The problem is in agitation, using the basket invites vertical surge marks on the film. With a water bath before developer, most likely no air bubbles will be clinging to the film emulsion. Insert of the film into the tank, once completely submersed lift a bit then kind of rattle the hanger against the sides of the tank. Has worked perfectly for me for more years than I care to count. BTW, each minute, I lift and rock to the right 45 degrees or so then resubmerge gently, not dropping the hanger so as not causing the developer to rush through the side and bottom holes. Lift again, and rock to the left and gently replace the hanger in the developer. For me it takes close to five seconds.

Charlie...............................

what he said ...

 

[herb]

Deep tank development of sheet film

My tanks only hold about a gallon for 8x10, but slowwww lift and tilt works for me also in 5x7. Had a hell of a time with Efke until I got VERY slow with the lift and tilt deal. Also like water bath before dev.

 

[brian steinberger]

I tried hangers with 4x5 on single SS hangers (6 at a time) for 2 years before giving up due to streaking. Someone recommended the cradle from Steve Summitek. I got one and never looked back. 6 sheets at time in an 11x14 tray. It use the same amount of chemistry as the half gallon tank that I used before and I get the most even development ever. Just my two cents...

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I have done tray development and was able to do 4-6 sheets of 4x5 or 8x10 without scratching them. Efke, Fp-4+, T-max 400 etc. If you are not in a rush and pay attention to what you are doing it is very easy to do. I have only developing my B&W for about three years now and I recently switched to tanks for my 4x5 and 8x10 (soon 5x7) so I could use the Pyrocat HD and minimal agitation. Again, if you concentrate on what you are doing and follow procedures you should do fine. I am developing in my apartment bathroom with no problem. Then again my bedroom never sees the light of day!! It is my darkroom!! My development has been very even with this process and I've been using a lot of Efke and love the results with the hangers. I always use a presoak. There is a lot of helpfull info on the forum and I suggest you do some testing to see what procedure fits your nature. I will be going back to tray development for my 8x20 when I finish building it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Ask as many questions as you want. The people on this forum are the best.

Stay Focused or... Soft Focused!!

Jim

 

[Tony Lovell]

Pyrocat in deep tanks

I have done tray development and was able to do 4-6 sheets of 4x5 or 8x10 without scratching them. Efke, Fp-4+, T-max 400 etc. If you are not in a rush and pay attention to what you are doing it is very easy to do. I have only developing my B&W for about three years now and I recently switched to tanks for my 4x5 and 8x10 (soon 5x7) so I could use the Pyrocat HD and minimal agitation.

Jim are you using the Pyrocat HD as a one shot developer in deep tanks?

Tony