deep blacks change of hue quickly.. how come?

chris77 · May 20, 2016

hello there..

i have encountered something i cant explain.
freshly mixed (today) dektol 1+2 from rather fresh stock (1 month old) gave me neutral (!) black on the first two sheets of paper (fomabrom variant)
the 5 sheets after (same negative, same exposure, even tried one with a burned in corner to be sure to have max density) have not gained the same neutral black, but tend to a ever so slightly blueish black.

its not really noticeable or disturbing on its own, but in direct comparison to the first two sheets in good light its pretty obvious!

how can it be?
can 2 sheets already change the developer? is it possible that 15 minutes in the tray already start to make a difference? i cannot explain it...

best greetings, just wanted to ask this here out of curiosity...
chris

Marco Buonocore · May 20, 2016

More information is needed. How much developer did you make? What size were the sheets of paper?

chris77 · May 20, 2016

i made 1 liter 20°c in the beginning, maybe cooling down to 19 during work. paper is 8x10"

Jim Noel · May 20, 2016

Dektol stock solution one month old, may be near the end of its useful life. More needs to be known about how this was stored- glass or plastic, full or partially full bottle, constant or varying temperature, etc.

Gerald C Koch · May 20, 2016

It is possible for the image tone to drift a bit from print to print. The composition of the developer changes with use. Among other things development causes bromide ions to be released into the developer. In addition the amount of developing agents also decreases. With an MQ developer like Dektol some of the hydroquinone is converted to hydroquinone monosulfonate which has developing capability.

If the color change concerns you then you will have to use the developer as a one-shot. This will insure that the tone does not change. I would suggest that you use a Color Canoe for this purpose. The canoe is a stainless steel developing tray with a curved bottom. As you rock the tray the developer flows over the entire print. You may be able to get one on ebay. It allows me to use as little as an ounce or two of developer for each 8x10 print. I find them useful when I only want to make a print or two.

chris77 · May 20, 2016

3/4 full plastic container (4 litre container for distilled water from supermarket) the stock solution is still totally clear, but has already some color (far from dark). tempreature was rather constant around 13 degrees... should never have turned bad by now i guess? image comes on as it should... hmm.. maybe the lid of the container not tight enough?

chris77 · May 20, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
It is possible for the image tone to drift a bit from print to print. The composition of the developer changes with use. Among other things development causes bromide ions to be released into the developer. In addition the amount of developing agents also decreases. With an MQ developer like Dektol some of the hydroquinone is converted to hydroquinone monosulfonate which has developing capability.

If the color change concerns you then you will have to use the developer as a one-shot. This will insure that the tone does not change. I would suggest that you use a Color Canoe for this purpose. The canoe is a stainless steel developing tray with a curved bottom. As you rock the tray the developer flows over the entire print. You may be able to get one on ebay. It allows me to use as little as an ounce or two of developer for each 8x10 print. I find them useful when I only want to make a print or two.

thanks.. interesting this..

chris77 · May 20, 2016

well, just in case somebody i interested. i "spiced up" the developer with another 150ml of stock dektol and maybe 100ml of water (makes it somewhat 1+1,5 from stock) and the blacks are fine!
keeping the stock for a bit over a month in a half empty plastic container obviously didnt help...

cheers

Prof_Pixel · May 20, 2016

Are you looking at wet prints or dry prints?

Ian Grant · May 20, 2016

Sounds a bit odd as prints tend to get warmer during a session as the bromide builds up. Maybe some contamination that can cause older bluer prints.

Ian

bdial · May 20, 2016

The plastic in the bottles for the distilled I buy here are pretty thin, and they don't have screw on tops. If yours are similar, you may want to consider other alternatives.

If the volume you are using the the tray is minimal, then you could see a difference in activity in 15 minutes. Otherwise, I agree with Ian, that the usual difference in tone as developer ages is toward warmer tones. If mine got cooler I'd celebrate.

chris77 · May 20, 2016

Prof_Pixel said:
Are you looking at wet prints or dry prints?

well, now looking at dry prints.. drying has equalized the differences.
pretty strange though, as in the water tray there was a real difference (and i havent had a glass of wine yet)

chris77 · May 20, 2016

bdial said:
The plastic in the bottles for the distilled I buy here are pretty thin, and they don't have screw on tops. If yours are similar, you may want to consider other alternatives.

If the volume you are using the the tray is minimal, then you could see a difference in activity in 15 minutes. Otherwise, I agree with Ian, that the usual difference in tone as developer ages is toward warmer tones. If mine got cooler I'd celebrate.

yes, i have one of those.. next batch will be mixed in another container...

MattKing · May 20, 2016

APUGuser19 said:
Never heard of a color cance. Is that like a Honeywell rocking print tray?

See here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Gerald C Koch · May 20, 2016

APUGuser19 said:
Never heard of a color cance. Is that like a Honeywell rocking print tray?

Yes, also called a Mitchell Color Canoe. Very handy for making a single print without mixing a lot of developer.

Arklatexian · May 21, 2016

_*_ said:
hello there..

i have encountered something i cant explain.
freshly mixed (today) dektol 1+2 from rather fresh stock (1 month old) gave me neutral (!) black on the first two sheets of paper (fomabrom variant)
the 5 sheets after (same negative, same exposure, even tried one with a burned in corner to be sure to have max density) have not gained the same neutral black, but tend to a ever so slightly blueish black.

its not really noticeable or disturbing on its own, but in direct comparison to the first two sheets in good light its pretty obvious!

how can it be?
can 2 sheets already change the developer? is it possible that 15 minutes in the tray already start to make a difference? i cannot explain it...

best greetings, just wanted to ask this here out of curiosity...
chris

Of course I am always living in and remembering the past. If I made a Dektol working solution of 1:2 water and stock solution, poured that working solution in a tray, printed a couple of prints (or maybe no prints at all), rather than save the working solution for another time, I would dump it and make fresh next time I printed. In my darkroom and in any professional darkroom where I have worked, once we poured working solution Dektol
into a tray, it was dumped afterwards whether we used it or not. The cost of Dektol did not justify trying to get around the problems caused by exposing the working solution to air overnight (or whatever) and then trying to use it again. I have never had what you have described when using Dektol this way......Regards!

piu58 · May 21, 2016

if you let the prints longer in the they come out more blueish. May be that is the explanation.

I don't think that the developer itself changed remarkably.

deep blacks change of hue quickly.. how come?

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